Why Asking for a Draw is Wrong

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ed_norton
blake78613 wrote:

  You know you have a theoretical win, but analyzing the position has given you  a migraine headache.  All you want to do is go home.   Is it ethical to agree to draw?


 The United States Chess Team faced a similar problem with the  North Vietnamese Team in the early 60's. The U.S. should have offered a draw on the second move, but played on and lost. Some positions just can't be won.

shepi13
blake78613 wrote:

Suppose you are playing the last round in a tournament and are out of the running.  All your opponent needs is a draw to win the tournament.  You have the advantage in a very tough endgame.  You have a King, Queen, and pawn vs. King and Queen.  You know you have a theoretical win, but analyzing the position has given you  a migraine headache.  All you want to do is go home.   Is it ethical to agree to draw?


 And King Queen pawn v Queen King is usually a draw anyways, as it is almost impossible to escape perpetual. I drew a similar position in one of my games - KQ3P v KQ2P, because perpetual check was unavoidable.

browni3141
shepi13 wrote:
blake78613 wrote:

Suppose you are playing the last round in a tournament and are out of the running.  All your opponent needs is a draw to win the tournament.  You have the advantage in a very tough endgame.  You have a King, Queen, and pawn vs. King and Queen.  You know you have a theoretical win, but analyzing the position has given you  a migraine headache.  All you want to do is go home.   Is it ethical to agree to draw?


 And King Queen pawn v Queen King is usually a draw anyways, as it is almost impossible to escape perpetual. I drew a similar position in one of my games - KQ3P v KQ2P, because perpetual check was unavoidable.


 I had an interesting KQ2P vs. KQ, which I won. It was easier than I though it would be to avoid perpetual check, but still hard.

losscause

offering a draw once is ok but over and over is just poor sportsmanship.

dragonfly2012
TheAwsomeDude wrote:

We all play chess and we lose,win,and draw.Those are the right ways to end a game,but asking for a draw is just wrong.I've played more than 45 games and 5 tournaments and more than 10 people have asked for a draw.I'm here to say that if you ask for a draw,then you're too chicken to finish a game.There've been times where I thought that I would loose and wanted to quit the game,but I didn't and won about 70% of those games.So next time you play a chess game on chess.com and your opponent ask for a draw,say no and remember how bg of a chicken he/she is.

 

I think considering that you probably learn more from your losses than your wins, then players should really see the game to its conclusion and not opt for a draw in order to avoid defeat.


Ubik42
kwaloffer wrote:

It's fun to offer a draw at move 12 or so, in a position where the game is basically yet to start. They almost always decline, but then continue way more berserk than they would have otherwise.


 I have often thought this would be a particularly evil tactic to try sometime.

I know it worked on me once (though I dont think my young opponent intended it that way, since he later offered another draw while having a clear winning advantage, due to me trying too hard to justify my refusal).

Also, I offered a draw recently in a opposite colored bishop ending, had it declined, then went on to win. I wonder if the draw offer caused my opponent to overextend himself.

But to try it deliberately...hmmm. Very very evil. And it sure could work.

beardogjones

offering draws should be illegal IMO

fissionfowl

And why is that?

beardogjones

Because you shouldn't be able to talk or make "meta-moves" in

a chess game.  This "null move" (draw offer) can be used for psychological purposes

without affecting your chances negatively.

browni3141
beardogjones wrote:

Because you shouldn't be able to talk or make "meta-moves" in

a chess game.  This "null move" (draw offer) can be used for psychological purposes

without affecting your chances negatively.


 Is that a bad thing? Maybe we shouldn't be able to repeat a position twice, because that can be used for psychological purposes. Maybe we should just give up the game for soulless computers to play without any psychology involved.

If we weren't allowed to offer draws, then how would the game end? Would you really want to play out every single drawn game to stalemate, threefold repetition, or the fifty-move rule?

BadRobot59

Interesting thoughts on draws here. Personally, here on chess.com I have nearly three times more draws than losses recorded in my tournamaent games, but it certainly doesn't mean i'm a chicken or not a fighter - I win about 75% of my games!

It justs seems to me if the game is equal and their is no obvious path to victory that a draw is an honorable choice - especially against a comparably rated player.

ChessisGood

@TheAwesomeDude

Problems with your theory:

  • People offer draws often when they feel they would benefit from resting between rounds, even if a half point could be gained.
  • People draw for prize purposes.
  • Your rating is 897.
Xoque55
browni3141 wrote:
beardogjones wrote:

Because you shouldn't be able to talk or make "meta-moves" in

a chess game.  This "null move" (draw offer) can be used for psychological purposes

without affecting your chances negatively.


 Is that a bad thing? Maybe we shouldn't be able to repeat a position twice, because that can be used for psychological purposes. Maybe we should just give up the game for soulless computers to play without any psychology involved.

If we weren't allowed to offer draws, then how would the game end? Would you really want to play out every single drawn game to stalemate, threefold repetition, or the fifty-move rule?


 For those of you seriously thinking about doing this, browni3141 is asking a Rhetorical Question.

beardogjones
Xoque55 wrote:
browni3141 wrote:
beardogjones wrote:

Because you shouldn't be able to talk or make "meta-moves" in

a chess game.  This "null move" (draw offer) can be used for psychological purposes

without affecting your chances negatively.


 Is that a bad thing? Maybe we shouldn't be able to repeat a position twice, because that can be used for psychological purposes. Maybe we should just give up the game for soulless computers to play without any psychology involved.

If we weren't allowed to offer draws, then how would the game end? Would you really want to play out every single drawn game to stalemate, threefold repetition, or the fifty-move rule?


 For those of you seriously thinking about doing this, browni3141 is asking a Rhetorical Question.


Sure. Why not?

That is the point - psychology is fine if its based on moves on the board

not on "slamming doors".

Cystem_Phailure
chessisgood wrote:

@TheAwesomeDude

Problems with your theory:

  • People offer draws often when they feel they would benefit from resting between rounds, even if a half point could be gained. 
  • People draw for prize purposes. 
  • Your rating is 897.

lol Cool

Cystem_Phailure
browni3141 wrote:
beardogjones wrote:

Because you shouldn't be able to talk or make "meta-moves" in

a chess game.  This "null move" (draw offer) can be used for psychological purposes

without affecting your chances negatively.


 Is that a bad thing? 


Looks like beardog wouldn't know.  After 20 months as a member he still hasn't played a game.

goldendog

Yeah. We don't like them typesWink.

Cystem_Phailure
goldendog wrote:

Yeah. We don't like them types.


Yeah, but you don't have opposable digits so we don't expect you to be able to move the mouse.  It probably takes you a while just to bat out the words on the keyboard. 

goldendog

I'll just get out of everybody's way. That's okay <choke>.

Cystem_Phailure

How'd you draw that so fast?