Martin vs The world Analysis thread

e5 may not work.

Nxd4    e5
Nb5!   Qxb3 (forced)
axb3    Bxc1 (and he can take with his King or his rook; very dicey because he can take our LSDB with his rook, next move, and who knows the havoc that may follow… but assume he doesn't)
Rxc1

We cannot castle because Martin would play Nc7, forking two rooks and a DB all at once.

Now, instead of castling long, we could capture the knight with our DB (a gambit of sorts) and he captures back with his pawn, thereby doubling his pawns on the b file.

Haven't worked it out since I did all of this in my head with no board in front of me.

But e5 has serious ramifications that have to be considered.

We would most likely castle long next, and he has to castle long, too.

We bring our knight out to d7 (have to or we are doomed), and he plays a rook to d1.

So, it is the doubling of his pawns versus our poor trade of a LSDB for his knight.

It might be advantageous for us.  Don't know.

If Qd7 is not played, then Nb5, which cuts off our queen's protection and essentially forces a trade, is strong for white. 

Even if Qd7 does not bring an advantage, it may be the only (or best) way to avoid a disadvantage.

From a strategic viewpoint, an equal position may be best in order to try to get Martin to overextend. If he doesn't, however, then a draw becomes a likely outcome.     

 In the end, it is better to have a position where we are forcing his moves but have options ourselves. This way we can focus all of our attention on one variation, whereas Martin has to look at several.

Of course, an equal or better (if only slightly) position is better than a worse one.

The only other option I see is b6. However, that seems to lead to a disadvantage.

JARP, agree with your Qd7 comments.  I just wish there was a way to cement an advantage after that.  If he doesn't castle long immediately, then he is nailed!

Anyway, the direction forward is narrow, and at least the World can focus its efforts on a Qd7 continuation.  It might be smart for us to move immediately so that Martin cannot think on our time.

Maybe he'll play an inaccuracy.

Doubt it; he's been wanting to castle long for quite some time.  That was why he played Be2.

Ok, I went through a few alternatives… like Nd7, or e5 and nothing works better than Qd7 for us.

Playing Qd7 keeps his pawns isolated, and one of the pawns is on a poor file. (the a file)

I Vote Qd7.

P.S. If we play Qd7, remember to post it as Kd7 since the King and Queen identities were reversed, but we reversed them back to make our play easier on the analysis board.

Ry, it wouldn't go like that.

It would go...

 Nxd4   O-O-O
O-O-O    Qd7

So, the exact same position for our Queen results (Qd7), he has castled, and we have castled.

The only difference is that we have decided to make our next move, which is to castle long.

If we wanted any flexibility (maybe we don't want to castle long right away) we have lost that option of choice.

Since it would be white's move now, he could check us by playing his DSDB to the center diagonal and say check. (Bc3+)  We move our King to g8, and then he plays Nb5, hemming in our LSDB.

If we now bring our Knight out, Nc6, he plays one of his Rooks to d1, attacking our Queen.

We play Qc1 (forced), and he plays Nd6 forking our Queen and Rook.  We can capture the Knight with our DSDB, but he then wins the exchange of a Drunken Bishop for a Knight, and he plants his DSDB solidly on d6.

His Queen will be sending us a calling card soon enough, later, as Qg3.  Bad news.

Best I can figure, he will still castle long, first things, first.

Remember, the jury is out on what an endgame of two DBs vs. Rook and DB would be like.

Personally, from playing around with the pieces for over a month, I find two DBs in the endgame to be particularly pesky to maneuver around.  They're like sugar ants in summer. You turn around and there's another one on patrol.

Looking at your ideas.  There may be something to them.  Give us some time.

The best DSDB move to play is Bc5, and could result in White playing Nb5, which forces the exchange of Queens.  Then White's pawns are no longer isolated, but White cannot castle long for the moment.  Castling is not as important at this point, now that the Queens are removed.

White can go for an endgame of two DBs and a Rook vs. Black as two Rooks and a DB.

Two DBs are deadly.  For White to make that happen, the move is immediately available as Rxa6.

Black cannot castle because the Knight at b5 would fork both Black Rooks.  Furthermore, Black's Knight is hemmed in because removing it will result in the doubling of Blacks pawns on a6 and a7, when the White Rook captures White's LSDB.

It's pretty pathetic for Black.

Ry, what we have to do is play a mock game.  I'll be White.

Let's play it from this point on, after Bf4 Nb5 Qxb3 axb3 Bxa1 Bxa1.  Black to move.

We can try a few mock games from that position.  Sound good?  And we can get help from everyone, help on both sides, and let's see where things go.

I'll tell you right now, with two DBs against a Rook and DB, especially Martin's "free-range" DBs, you'll see how little structure matters.

It's a good way for us to delve into things, and show how invasive the DBs can be.  They ruin Rook attacks.  I may be wrong and you may be right, but let's test the waters a little.

Do you want to do the mock game thing?  It might be the most efficient way to explore stuff.

You had raised a good point about, what's wrong with this and this move?  I agree.

By exploring it we'll get very solid info.  I wouldn't be surprised if Martin plays a buddy, unbeknownst to us, to figure out what to do. (umm, maybe not)

Pardon me, yes, you just made a move.

cxb5

And at anytime we can take moves back to make things as efficient as possible.

I vote Qd7

Why Bf4?

Explain… in detail.

Here's your board:
Black to Move

… and here's the board with the mock game I thought we were playing:

(Black to Move; you as Black against me as White; everyone can help (on both sides)

Since it has been 10 hours, I'll assume we will not be playing a mock game.

From the mock game board (the 2nd of the two in my last post), look how Black fares.

•      …       O-O-O
  O-O-O      Nd7 a break out move; gotta get something going
    Bb2+      Kg8
     Rd1        Ne5
      f4          so Ne5 wasn't a good idea
  
                   Rad8 instead of Ne5
    Bb4          e5
    Bf3  and the moves are child's play for White

So, Black won't castle long from the original mock board position.

•      …          Nd7
     Bb2        Rc1
  O-O-O
  Soon it will be Candy-gram for Mongo time for Black

So, Black, well … Black just resigns.

Here's the f2 line, its a game ender for Black.  From the above 1st diagram.

   …        Bf4
Nb5     Qxb3
axb3    Bxf2
Bxg7+!

"Mongo like candy."

The continuation…

     …        Ke8
  Bxh8     Bg5
  Nd6+    Ke7
    e5      Bxh8
  Rxa7    Nxa7
  Bxb7    Rb8
  Bxa7    Rxb3
O-O-O

Can we agree that a bishop move makes our position worse?

Sure, and I Edited my last post.

I'm still liking Qd7.  Continuations from there are where we should focus.

Since we're on a new page, here is our Analysis Board with the Qd7 move played for Black and White's best move of castle long played, too. (if Martin doesn't castle long, he's in big trouble)

1 Move (each side) Future-Board of Current Position; (Black to Move)

Since Qd7 will probably be our move, and Martin will probably castle long, we have six days to analyze our best move from here.

To everyone, it isn't like we've lost this game… we just haven't looked deep enough, bringing enough pieces to bear — strategically — to win.

Who is martin