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New piece rules and combos, your advice is needed

  • #1

    Hi

    I'd like to know which piece combinations you recommand.

    I hope in beginning 2018 i'll release many new pieces.

     

    Here is the List:

    1) Spider, Figural

    2) Bombarde (a Figural Antique Cannon)

    3) Lion

    4) Lioness

    5) Bear

    6) Wolf

    7) Dog

    8) Mammoth

    9) Rhinoceros

    10) Camel

    11) Dragon, Figural

    12) Griffin

    13) Attilla (Eagle)

    14) Warrior

    15) Glider

    16) Wizard

    17) Citadel

    18) Emperor

    19) Zebra

    20) Wildebeest

     

    By the way, which rules you'd like for these pieces?

     

    Best regards

    Zied

  • #2

    To whom?

  • #3

    Everyone?

  • #4

    Hi

    For me, it would be obvious to combine wildebeest and camel.

  • #5
    dariuscmk wrote:

    Everyone?

    Hi

    All persons that would like to participate are wellcome.

  • #6

    Sure, I’ll throw out a couple of ideas.

     

    • Figural pieces should retain the moves of their non-figural counterparts, so as to not cause confusion.
    • Lion/Bear - King + alfil + dababa + knight.
    • Mammoth - This could move in a similar way to the elephant, so: king + knight; king + hawk; or alfil + dabbaba.
    • Camel - You could just have this be a regular camel, but instead you could make it king + camel.
    • Zebra - knight + zebra (the 2,3 leaper). This would give you a nice parallel to the unicorn, and keep it faithful to the classic fairy piece.

    EDIT: Had another idea. It would be good if, in this thread, we had images of the more completed moulds so that we can see the design of the pieces and compare their size to the pieces already available. Piece movement correlating with design is important, you know?

    • Warrior/Wizard - The rook + camel and bishop + camel compound pieces are almost never used in contemporary variants. Why not introduce them here, with the warrior being rook + camel and the wizard bishop + camel?
    • Wildebeest - Since wildebeest chess’ iconic piece has been replaced by a unicorn, this one is tricky. I see this best fitting the moves of the chu shogi phoenix.
    • Lioness - queen + alfil + dabbaba. This gives you a piece similar in value to the dragon.
    • Citadel - rook + ferz, or you could make it a stronger version of the fortress by giving it the moves of the bishop and wazir.
    • Emperor - you could make this a second royal piece and give it the moves of the Finesse Zeus (B2+msW) but I’m not sure I like the idea of being able to choose another royal piece.
  • #7
    Ebinola wrote:

    Sure, I’ll throw out a couple of ideas.

     

    • Figural pieces should retain the moves of their non-figural counterparts, so as to not cause confusion.
    • Lion/Bear - King + alfil + dababa + knight.
    • Mammoth - This could move in a similar way to the elephant, so: king + knight; king + hawk; or alfil + dabbaba.
    • Camel - You could just have this be a regular camel, but instead you could make it king + camel.
    • Zebra - knight + zebra (the 2,3 leaper). This would give you a nice parallel to the unicorn, and keep it faithful to the classic fairy piece.

    GOOD INSPIRING IDEAS

  • #8

    I got a couple of ideas regarding orientation of the board and of these modified pieces .

     

     

    Board: perhaps a certain class could move more vertically than horizontally (or vice-versa), or diagonally than orthagonally, or more specific even such as up to two four squares south be east or west OR three squares due south OR double that in the northward. Obviously traversing 'backwards' is a must, as even it is forpawns in classic chance by virtue if promotion should one reach eighth rank, which ties in with the other aspect.

     

    Piece facing direction: Intuitively (i.e. analogous to real-life counterparts), it would take extra time for a combatant to pull a 180° and proceed in a heading opposite or nearly so to preceding movement. The shape of the knight figurine comes to mind; while some players face the horse heads to a side and some forward or elsewise, perhaps direction that it is pointing would indicate pertinent data, to its heading and viable movements therefrom (I am not suggesting this restriction unto knights specifically, but another powerful one to prevent it from being over-powered).

     

    What I have in mind is a hybrid between a knight and a room. Which of the listed animals would be most appropriate, I am not certain; perhaps a Warrior?  Its movements could be othagonal like a cannon with leaping ability of one piece (friendly or enemy). The catch is that it can move in only the direction that it is facing; upon landing on a new square, you can turn it up to 90° for its next move. Perhaps at the cost of half a move you could alter your directional pieces' headings (full move for all of them, in lieu of actual movement to occupying different square). Perhaps one orientation modification could be complimentary to a regular move, so long as notated & represented accordingly.  Optionally a further complexity could be ability if another piece like General, Queen, or Sorcerer\Wizard which allows multiple re-orientations per turn IFF said piece is standing.

     

    As for the mammoth: logically this should be a large (spacious) piece, perhaps occupying four or three squares, requiring two-pronged attack to nix it, but be slow-moving.

     

    Grass-hopper:  can jump over an odd number of pieces (1, 3, 5, or 7; not 0, 2, 4, or 6), friendly or enemy, to either an empty square or to capture an enemy (possibly to share a square with a friendly small man like a pawn); OR in an L of 3&2 (contrasting with knight of 2&1) to an unoccupied square only. 

     

    sweep-digger: can move on square forward or as far unobstructed horizontally ('sweeping'). Upon reaching the other side of the board (i.e. eighth rank), its 'forward-facing' orientation switches 180°, and again should it reach the first rank.  Its 'digging' move is a special ability to swap places with a friendly piece on the same rank. The swap may apply to the King but only once and may in that case only be achieved vertically (same file) as well.  This may be befitting for a Wizard.

     

     

    I am also toying in my mind with possibility of a piece that can move or must move in an L if some matter (i.e. not straight) but in a certain mode that does not allow 'hopping' like a knight (further distances than pony so as not to be under-powered).  Also got idea although likely to complex of movement up to a certain distance of squares as measured orthagonally; any diagonal component requires trigonometry or memorization. Starting position could be defined either as center of starting square or perhaps edge of said square of whichever vector heading in most. As for distance, maybe 5 squares (leap-able) or 3 in one linear direction unobstructed.

  • #9
    0sumPuzzlerDtoWL wrote:

    I got a couple of ideas regarding orientation of the board and of these modified pieces .

     

     

    Board: perhaps a certain class could move more vertically than horizontally (or vice-versa), or diagonally than orthagonally, or more specific even such as up to two four squares south be east or west OR three squares due south OR double that in the northward. Obviously traversing 'backwards' is a must, as even it is forpawns in classic chance by virtue if promotion should one reach eighth rank, which ties in with the other aspect.

     

    Piece facing direction: Intuitively (i.e. analogous to real-life counterparts), it would take extra time for a combatant to pull a 180° and proceed in a heading opposite or nearly so to preceding movement. The shape of the knight figurine comes to mind; while some players face the horse heads to a side and some forward or elsewise, perhaps direction that it is pointing would indicate pertinent data, to its heading and viable movements therefrom (I am not suggesting this restriction unto knights specifically, but another powerful one to prevent it from being over-powered).

     

    What I have in mind is a hybrid between a knight and a room. Which of the listed animals would be most appropriate, I am not certain; perhaps a Warrior?  Its movements could be othagonal like a cannon with leaping ability of one piece (friendly or enemy). The catch is that it can move in only the direction that it is facing; upon landing on a new square, you can turn it up to 90° for its next move. Perhaps at the cost of half a move you could alter your directional pieces' headings (full move for all of them, in lieu of actual movement to occupying different square). Perhaps one orientation modification could be complimentary to a regular move, so long as notated & represented accordingly.  Optionally a further complexity could be ability if another piece like General, Queen, or Sorcerer\Wizard which allows multiple re-orientations per turn IFF said piece is standing.

     

    As for the mammoth: logically this should be a large (spacious) piece, perhaps occupying four or three squares, requiring two-pronged attack to nix it, but be slow-moving.

     

    Grass-hopper:  can jump over an odd number of pieces (1, 3, 5, or 7; not 0, 2, 4, or 6), friendly or enemy, to either an empty square or to capture an enemy (possibly to share a square with a friendly small man like a pawn); OR in an L of 3&2 (contrasting with knight of 2&1) to an unoccupied square only. 

     

    sweep-digger: can move on square forward or as far unobstructed horizontally ('sweeping'). Upon reaching the other side of the board (i.e. eighth rank), its 'forward-facing' orientation switches 180°, and again should it reach the first rank.  Its 'digging' move is a special ability to swap places with a friendly piece on the same rank. The swap may apply to the King but only once and may in that case only be achieved vertically (same file) as well.  This may be befitting for a Wizard.

     

     

    I am also toying in my mind with possibility of a piece that can move or must move in an L if some matter (i.e. not straight) but in a certain mode that does not allow 'hopping' like a knight (further distances than pony so as not to be under-powered).  Also got idea although likely to complex of movement up to a certain distance of squares as measured orthagonally; any diagonal component requires trigonometry or memorization. Starting position could be defined either as center of starting square or perhaps edge of said square of whichever vector heading in most. As for distance, maybe 5 squares (leap-able) or 3 in one linear direction unobstructed.

     

    Hi

    We've got here some amazing ideas.

     

    Can you give practicle examples using the Diagram Tool found here?

    http://musketeerchess.net/tools/boardpainter/

  • #10

    Mammoth +camel?

  • #11

    Eagle+warrior?

  • #12

    The rules are the pieces. If you don't have a movement pattern, you don't have a chess piece. As for what they should be, I think you should use pieces with differing movement and capturing patterns. That would give you plenty of options.

    Have a piece that moves as a knight and captures as a king, and the opposite.

  • #13
    LXIVC wrote:

    The rules are the pieces. If you don't have a movement pattern, you don't have a chess piece. As for what they should be, I think you should use pieces with differing movement and capturing patterns. That would give you plenty of options.

    Have a piece that moves as a knight and captures as a king, and the opposite.

    Hi

    I don't have such a piece. All your suggestions are wellcome.

    For this release, i would like to have as much ideas as possible.

    Even though there is no possible consensus among Chess Variant lovers, i hope the work i'm doing will inspire many of you to invent your own games and use my pieces.

    It's a big passion developing these pieces. The cost they bring me are far below the investment itself to update my website, develop all the staff i'm doing paying for the moulds, taxes and manufacturing. But it's worth doing it.

     

  • #14

    How about a few simple pieces?

    The spider: moves and captures in 3 directions, only a square away. Maybe worth about same as a pawn?

    The rhinoceros: moves and captures in 5 directions, or can retreat (without capture) 1 square backwards. I presume it would be a little weaker than a guard.

    Diagrams (made with Musketeer board painter tool):

    null

  • #15

    What about a 'Centaur' which, as its name suggests, would combine the moves of a King and Night, and would be initially positioned just on the inside of the Rooks at the start on a ten by ten square board.  The positioning near the edge is to prevent their being too powerful at the start, so they have to fight their way to the center to gain strength.   

  • #16

    Lion=Worth 3 pointsnull

  • #17

    Is that too strong for a lion?

  • #18

    Bear, worth 4 points (maybe 3)

    Can move and attack at the same time

    null

  • #19

    How do you get such ridiculously low value estimates? A piece with 20 possible, unblockable  moves should be as strong as a Queen.

  • #20

    I agree, @dariuscmk your bear is half a knight’s worth short of the K+A+N+D compound, which in itself is worth more than a queen. (Nonetheless, I think K+N+D is alright for the bear)

    I’m still of the opinion that figural pieces should retain the moves of their non-figural counterparts. If they’re supposed to be part of the musketeer piece lineup, then having two cannons, two dragons and two spiders with different moves will be confusing, even if they have completely different designs. It’d be simpler to say, “These figural pieces have the same moves as their non-figural counterparts, but their design is more faithful to their name.”

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