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Spartan Chess

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limjh76
HGMuller wrote:

"The Captain has mating potential, despite the fact it isn't worth more than a minor,.... End-Game Tables have been constructed for all pawnless 5-men end-games.

How do you determine the values of the pieces? I always have difficulty deciding whether to exchange the FIDE B/N with the Lieutenant/Captain when playing the computer. 

And can you point me to the End-Game Tables? Try googling it without success.

 

HGMuller

I always determine the piece values by play-testing from initial positions with unbalanced material. Just give one player two Captains instead of Knights in the FIDE setup, and let the computer play a couple of hundred games, and look which player scores better (and by how much). From tests like that I obtained

second Bishop > Lieutenant > first Bishop ~ Knight > Captain.

Although the differences are not very large. Warlord plus Pawn is slightly better than Queen, and the spare King is better than any minor, but worse than a Rook. The General is about halfway between Rook and Queen. Persian and Hoplit Pawns are about equal in value (but depends a lot on the Pawn constellation).

I must have published the EGT results on some forum (probably TalkChess); some are here: https://www.chessvariants.com/index/listcomments.php?order=DESC&itemid=MSspartan-chess . Redoing them would probably be faster than trying to look it up; I use FairyGen to calculate the 5-men end-games. (It can only do 8x8 boards, but that happens to be OK for Spartan Chess.) For 3-vs-1 (or 2-vs-1) EGT yu can try the Checkmating Applets at chessvariants.com.

 

HGMuller

I recalculated a few Spartan end-games: Because the Captain has mating potential, end-games of 2 light pieces vs 1 are generally won when the strong side has a Captain (KCCKN, KCCKB, KCLKN, KCLKB). If the weak side has a Rook, not even two Captains can win. I actually used a 'Modern Elephant' for calculating this, i.e. without the sideway step, but if that already wins, the Lieutenant certainly will. (And calculations with a true Lieutenant are slower, because of the reduced symmetry.) KLLKN is a forced win, (this really needed Lieutenants), but like KBBKN takes on average more than 50 moves, so almost always is a draw in practice. No pair of Persian minors can beat Captain or Lieutenenant.

limjh76

Wow, thanks for your detailed analysis and recommended link. You have provided good insights on how Persian army should engage the Spartan army (eg. Avoid R exchange with Spartan K) and the value of the pieces as endgame approaches (eg. Exchange Persian Minor with Spartan Minor) generally. In my humble opinion, the beauty of the game lies in how each army coordinate its pieces with its Pawn constellation.

HGMuller

I forgot to post any of the 4-men results. Rook vs Captain or Lieutenant is a draw, as might be expected. (Checkmating with a Rook is only possible through zugzwang, which you cannot exert if the opponent still has another piece. And the Spartan light pieces are even more difficult to catch than a King.) A General vs Rook or Bishop is generally won, though. (It doesn't need the zugzwang, as it can mate or drive the King back in a contact check though its King move.) The even stronger Warlock also beats a single FIDE minor. Likewise, Queen vs Captain or Lieutenant is a win too. The strength difference is just too large.

I cannot really generate EGT with an extra King according to the Spartan rules (extinction royalty, but duple-check). I can do a royal plus a non-royal King, though, which is a slightly weaker combination, because loss of one of the Kings (the royal one) can count as a loss there, while with extinction royalty it never would. Even a non-royal King is a 'strong defender', though: KQKK is a draw when the Kings can be connected (where KQKR would be a win). The point is that the King cannot be approached by another King, so it can never be attacked twice. But in 3-vs-2 end-games, where the strong side has a piece it can afford to sac, it is a different matter: KRBKK and KRNKK are both general wins. It is not certain this would also be true with Spartan rules.

diffchess

Very intriguing

clark1421
Is there any way to play this online against a human opponent? It’s a bucket list variant that I want to play against another person.
ArchbishopCheckmate

HG have you heard of Stargate? It has 7 gateable pieces on a 10x10 board with freeform castling and a lot of unique pieces. One "teleports" the enemy to their own back row, except the king, which can be teleported anywhere, even into checkmate. One is a piece freezer and that piece not only can't move, that square becomes off the board and sliders cannot slide past it. There is a Neutron Star that distorts gravity, and places like a Star Trek force field in front of it that the enemy cannot pass. Another piece can heal a frozen piece and return it to play. It's complicated, more like an army strategy game.

 

clark1421
Star gate sounds a little too complex for my liking.
HGMuller

I have seen it in the Gothic Chess thread, IIRC. No reason to repost it in every thread that is about a specific other variant...

ArchbishopCheckmate
HGMuller wrote:

I have seen it in the Gothic Chess thread, IIRC. No reason to repost it in every thread that is about a specific other variant...

I was told that it is impossible to program because it has pieces that do not capture. I heard you wrote a program that can play any variant. I was curious to know if you believe it cannot be programmed either.

HGMuller

'Any variant' is an exaggeration. My engine Fairy-Max has adjustable (but rectangular) board size up to 14x16, and can handle pieces with a large variety of moves (any slider, leaper or hopper, or their compounds, (singly) bent sliders, lame leapers). That is enouh to support an enormous number of variants, but it still leaves a lot of things it cannot do. Amongst those are piece drops, multiple captures, hit-and-run captures... And pieces with side effects (e.g. immobilizers, pacifiers, coordinators, transparency inducers, catapult or magnetic pieces). It seems Star Gate is full of the latter. With so many weird rules that no other variant would ever use, it only makes sense to make a dedicated program for it.

streetmansd

First International Online Spartan Chess Tournament March 27th 2021

Follow this link for tournament details

 

streetmansd

Play Spartan Chess online here: vchess.club

You can see the rules in detail here: Spartan Chess Description and Rules

AleCalvano97

blessed

clark1421

You can now play correspondence games at the Ludii Portal.

https://ludii.games/details.php?keyword=Spartan%20Chess

HumanBeing314
streetmansd wrote:

There are several unusual features of Spartan Chess and a couple that are apparently unique.

1. Unusual Different Armies - Spartan chess pits two completely different chess armies against each other. The Spartan side is Black and the Persian side white. The Persians are a traditional chess army. With the exception of their Kings however, every Spartan piece moves differently than that of the Persians (FIDA). While this is by no means unique, only a percentage point or two of chess variants vary the chess pieces between sides.

2. UnusualHistorical Rationale - There is a historical rationale for the opposing sides; Spartans vs. Persians. While the origin of Chess is debated (did it originate in India or Persia?) I naturally accepted the FIDA army as the Persians. While designing the Spartans I tried to capture the flavor of a more slowly moving, solid, mainly foot-soldier army. Of the chess variants with different armies only a fraction of those try to represent historical armies. A historical rationale is an unusual feature, not a unique one.

3. UniqueSpartan Hoplites or Spartan pawns - Spartan Chess features pawns on the two sides with different capabilities. The Persian uses traditional pawns of course. The Spartan uses hoplites  in place of pawns which are a first move hopping variation of a berolina pawn. The use of different types of pawns on opposing sides is, it seems, unique. BTW - the berolina pawn move diagonally and captures straight ahead.

4. UniqueTwo Kings - In Spartan Chess the Spartans field a chess army with two Kings. This is a part of the historical rationale owing to the fact that the Spartans did, in fact, have two Kings. Placing two fully royal Kings on one side along with rules to make that work, including situational check immunity and duple-check, is a unique feature of Spartan Chess.

Waiting for the other Shoe to Drop - Everything around chess has already been done before, hasn’t it? Over the years, as I thought about chess pieces and game variants, I would come up with an idea. I would then visit the various wikis and the CV website and find that it had already been done (*sigh*). Not so with different pawns on different sides. “Why?” I thought, “Was it just too hard?” I stuck with this idea until I came up with the additional idea of the Spartan army and two Kings and then developed this chess variant. There is still, a part of me that is waiting for someone to step forward and say something like “Well, this has all been done before. See my web link to Mr. T. H. Chesserman’s game Lacemedonian (i.e. Spartan) Chess invented in 1884”. So I sit, “Waiting for the other shoe to drop”.

Spartan Chess is posted on chessvariants.org among over 1,000 chess variants. So far the other shoe has not dropped and it does not look like it's going to.

S.D. Streetman, Inventor of Spartan Chess

 

What if you fork the 2 kings? does it mean Checkmate?

 

 

HGMuller
HumanBeing314 schreef:

What if you fork the 2 kings? does it mean Checkmate?

 

 

If one of the two can move to safety: nothing. The opponent can then capture the other. (But might not want to do that, when it is protected and the attacker was Rook or Queen.)

You must have one King that is not under attack at the end of your turn, though. If you cannot achieve that, you are checkmated even with two Kings present ('duple mate').

DimeVeck

Download STL file Chess, Arabic and Roman chess pieces • 3D print object ・ Cults (cults3d.com)

 

looks like perfect for Spartan Chess. please go check it out