Can there be more than 1 solution to a puzzle?

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Jonathanzeng1
Lol
Adamski-KDY

I agree with this.  Yes, finding the 'best' move is important. However, finding a 'good' move seems to be punished on the puzzles.  Keep losing points for legitimate, albeit not the 'best' moves is a tad demotivating... sad.png

lfPatriotGames
Prince-Adam wrote:

I agree with this.  Yes, finding the 'best' move is important. However, finding a 'good' move seems to be punished on the puzzles.  Keep losing points for legitimate, albeit not the 'best' moves is a tad demotivating...

I think that's good training though. Tactics and puzzles to me are like practice in golf. Good practice is only going to get you good results. The best practice is going to get the best results. 

So when I get a puzzle wrong even though I had a really good solution, I understand. Really good is not the best. Really good often loses. But the best never loses. 

So when I see a solution that wins a rook or something in 4 moves I stop and think is that really the best solution? Chances are winning a rook is going to win the game. But if the options  are mate in 5 vs winning a rook in 4 obviously the very good move should be penalized. I've had many games where I was a rook or more up and still lost the game. 

Practice should be tough. It should be difficult. It should always be making you think "how can I do better?" There are a few things that I don't like about chess.com but the harsh penalties for good solutions in their puzzles is one they got right. It will make you a better player. 

forked_again

Often times the best move involved sacrificing a piece, or ignoring a hanging piece to get a faster mate.  For a computer, a faster mate is superior.  For a human, winning is winning.  Ignoring a huge material gain makes no sense to me because you risk missing something and losing your advantage.  It makes more sense to go for a sure thing, even if mate takes longer.

Lagomorph

If you see a good move, don't instinctively play it.....look for a better one

lfPatriotGames
forked_again wrote:

Often times the best move involved sacrificing a piece, or ignoring a hanging piece to get a faster mate.  For a computer, a faster mate is superior.  For a human, winning is winning.  Ignoring a huge material gain makes no sense to me because you risk missing something and losing your advantage.  It makes more sense to go for a sure thing, even if mate takes longer.

But the mate is the sure thing. An advantage in pieces or position is not. I know I have lost MANY games where I had a piece or position advantage. But I've never lost a game where I checkmated the opponent. Not even once. 

It totally agree that most of the time the piece or position advantage is probably going to win. I just think it's good practice to always be looking for something better. 

NikkiLikeChikki
Ultimately it’s a tactics trainer—to try to sharpen your tactics. Giving you points for not figuring out the best course of action would just encourage sloppy calculation. “Good enough” is the road to mediocrity. The scoring systems wants you to try to be better than that.
Santoy

I agree that it is frustrating when points are lost despite the 'solution' gaining good advantage but also acknowledge that it instils a good discipline to have a quick check that there is nothing even better. 

forked_again
lfPatriotGames wrote:
forked_again wrote:

Often times the best move involved sacrificing a piece, or ignoring a hanging piece to get a faster mate.  For a computer, a faster mate is superior.  For a human, winning is winning.  Ignoring a huge material gain makes no sense to me because you risk missing something and losing your advantage.  It makes more sense to go for a sure thing, even if mate takes longer.

But the mate is the sure thing. An advantage in pieces or position is not. I know I have lost MANY games where I had a piece or position advantage. But I've never lost a game where I checkmated the opponent. Not even once. 

It totally agree that most of the time the piece or position advantage is probably going to win. I just think it's good practice to always be looking for something better. 

I agree with you that the puzzle should prioritize the fastest mate, as that teaches you to get better at finding mating patterns.  It's just the scoring system that seems messed up as you can get 5 points for finding the fastest mate, but lose 14 points if you take the queen. Sometimes good moves are penalized less, but it's not consistent.

Not that I think it's a big deal.  Last time I checked, Starbucks will not trade puzzle points for a cup of coffee.  wink.png

Kinngis

I noticed the same thing.

I found a solution, which was  4-move mate. It was flagged as false, because the "correct" solution was a 3-move mate.

However, I dont worry about the points. The points get back up after the next 1-2 correct solutions

lfPatriotGames
Kinngis wrote:

I noticed the same thing.

I found a solution, which was  4-move mate. It was flagged as false, because the "correct" solution was a 3-move mate.

However, I dont worry about the points. The points get back up after the next 1-2 correct solutions

You've got it. That is exactly what I did. When I completely ignored the scoring system I did much better. Now I just focus on the puzzle. If it's wrong, it's wrong, and 99.99% of the time it's for a good reason. So I have to go over it and contemplate why I got it wrong. And then I do the same thing when I get it right. Go over it and contemplate why I got it right. 

If the scoring system were one point for a correct solution and fifty points deducted for a wrong one I would still do exactly the same thing. 

DerekDHarvey

This problem has 5 solutions and is instructive.

Cedarviola

Here's one. I got it wrong. I failed. I blew it but still got +1 points. This is puzzle  #1368876.

On analysis, my move was winning just not the best. So sometimes, once in a while, the puzzle gods DO honor more than one solution.

 

25GSchatz22
DerekDHarvey wrote:

This problem has 5 solutions and is instructive.

Yeah, I wish chess.com allowed the puzzles to have multiple solutions, or at least for them not to penalize you for putting in a winning move, but not the best move

Kinngis

This puzzle is a good example:

https://www.chess.com/puzzles/problem/127705

2 possible solutions both mate with 2 moves, but only one is "right"

Or I just cant see why, Rh3 and mate with queen wouldnt work?!?!?

the "correct" solution is Qxg6+, Rh3

 

Edit: Damn. I just saw it! my solution is wrong.

aMazeMove
Kinngis wrote:

This puzzle is a good example:

https://www.chess.com/puzzles/problem/127705

2 possible solutions both mate with 2 moves, but only one is "right"

Or I just cant see why, Rh3 and mate with queen wouldnt work?!?!?

the "correct" solution is Qxg6+, Rh3

 

Edit: Damn. I just saw it! my solution is wrong.

see, most of the time there is just one correct winning line

Adamski-KDY

I understand the comments made by others that the puzzle function is a tactics trainer.  The aim being that one finds the 'best' move rather than a 'good' move.  I still don't agree however that one should lose points for an otherwise 'good' move.   Surely a 'good' move should be rewarded, and the 'best' moves should attract more rewards.

I'm not suggesting that all of my moves are good, sometimes I'm just completely wrong, which is fine and I can take the hit.  However having blown over 240 points of my 'score' over last few days, my enthusiasm for actually bothering with the puzzles has dropped to pretty much 'nul points' as one would say in Eurovision.

Lagomorph
Prince-Adam wrote:

I understand the comments made by others that the puzzle function is a tactics trainer.  The aim being that one finds the 'best' move rather than a 'good' move.  I still don't agree however that one should lose points for an otherwise 'good' move.   Surely a 'good' move should be rewarded, and the 'best' moves should attract more rewards.

 

Sir, the point of a puzzle is to teach. The aim is to get YOU to find the best move. If you fail to do so, you should not get a consolation prize for mediocrity.

The very top chess players do not get to their rankings by being "second best"

Adamski-KDY

I'm not a 'top chess player' though and have no aspiration to become one...  'Good' should indeed be recognised when one is learning.  So I disagree with your point.  Finding a 'good' move, as an amateur, who plays chess for fun, should not be described as 'mediocrity', or 'consolation prize'.... 

Lagomorph
Prince-Adam wrote:

I'm not a 'top chess player' though and have no aspiration to become one...  'Good' should indeed be recognised when one is learning.  So I disagree with your point.  Finding a 'good' move, as an amateur, who plays chess for fun, should not be described as 'mediocrity', or 'consolation prize'.... 

and this is why we have kids coming out of school that cannot do maths or spell.....because no-one told them they had failed to achieve.

I hope you don't have kids.