Chess Bots

Have you read the news?  World of Warcraft (WoW) just suspended 100,000 users for using bots (computer programs) to play their game for them.  Their accounts suspended for 6 months.  Is it just me, or does this just sound strange?  Why bother?  Automated game play, does this make any sense?  I’m not sure how WoW is played, but this article did get me thinking about the possibility of chess bots.

Do chess players use bots for online chess play too? 

(Just as a note, not really looking for a lesson on WoW, but thanks)

So, I searched the internet, and to my surprise, I did find chess bots for playing chess online.

This got me thinking about this even more…

Many players play blitz or bullet chess online in order avoid “all the cheaters” playing slow chess.  Now, let me inject my thoughts here, “there are cheaters in everything, but I do not believe that everyone playing slow chess is cheating.  Nor doing I think the percentage is that high as some might think or claim.”  Back to the point, blitz and bullet, if players are using chess bots then online blitz and bullet games are just as likely to have computer assisted play as slower online chess games might be. 

What do you think?

Looking at these chess bots made me curious about what chess dot com can do to discourage this, and if V3 will be any better at detecting this?  I understand chess dot com might not what to give away details on their methods.  It may even be unfair of me to ask, but once you discover chess bots like I just have, this is just natural to think about.  Can it even be detected?

After further thought about this, I can begin to understand if someone took the time to create a chess program that plays chess online, it is only natural to want to “test” it.  Now, I’m not 100% against someone “testing” their creation, as long as they fully disclose this to their opponent before the game begins.  I am 100% against someone using chess bots without their opponent’s knowledge, especially if it is a rated game.  That would be cheating, not testing.

What do you think about this?

The fact that it exists mean someone is using it, but just how popular can it be? 

I’m guessing the percentage of users/accounts using bots is pretty low.  However, chess bots don’t have any place to go, other things to do, never need sleep.  Theoretically, it could play chess around the clock, every day, all night, day after day… a potential bucket load of games.

If this is popular and I’m not saying it is.  Would a special area where this is permitted help control it?

For one, it may shed some light on just how popular it is within the online chess community.  These creative people would not have to “sneak” around.  I’m thinking percentage wise, chess players vs. WoW players, more chess players might have the skill set required to create bots; I could be totally wrong.  The point is, by permitting such activity in a “bot zone”, would this be an effective tool for discourage it else ware on the website.   Or is there more to it?   Is there something I’m missing?  Is the thrill of getting away with something part of it?

A bot zone might just be a waste of time.  Maybe it would only encourage such activity.

What do you think?

in before lock, you have been warned.

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/chesscom-policy-on-cheating

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/chesscom-policy-on-cheating?lc=1#last_comment

I appreciate your concern and advice.  I read the rules and I do not feel this crosses any lines.  If everyone keeps the rules in mind, not getting out of control, we might be able to have a real discussion on this subject.   That is, if anyone is even interested in having a discussion. 

Thanks, i have not seen this one... I will read it.

Yawn

Poor dog...can't read that much.

There is nothing to gain from botting on chess.com whereas, lots to gain in botting WoW. Botting in WoW means automating tasks where directly, or indirectly, result in something which can then be sold for money.

You could bot on chess.com, but what would be the financial gain? You cant even get free "premium" if you get up to 2000+ if you're not an actually titled player. So, even botting an account to 2000 and trying to sell it to someone doesnt really result in much financial gain which is the purpose of botting in MMORPG's.

I mean... why buy a botted 2000+ chess.com account when you can just buy an engine and do it yourself and never get banned?

I would like to have a work bot.

I think OP is a cheating thread bot.

Over and over and over and......

Must be Groundhog Day.

Wow, that is one long thread.  However, this thread mentions cheating, but I do not agree that this thread is solely directed at cheating.  Maybe the subject is too divisive for discussion.  Shame if that is true... avoiding/ingoring something doesn't make it go away.

When I first discovered this, sure, meaning bots, i thought, nothing is safe.  The more i think about it, the more questions I have... the more questions I have, the more I think, "using any assistance to play your game must be very boring."  It would be like running calulations on a stack a numbers all day... with one exception... you already know what the result will be.

Maybe it deserves discussion, maybe not... I'm guess i'll find that answer soon.  Unless you are affraid of being considered "silly" for asking a question... if we all let that bother us, where would we get?  Not far...

Some people think taking a "game" too serious is silly... yet, here we are.

 good one.

I think you will find 100% agreement on that one! 

I have found that chess engines can be used to find cheaters. Just copy the pgn into the gui and analyze it. If most of the moves come up as the first or second choice of the computer the odds are that person is cheating since if you do the same test on master games you will see that even masters make bad moves. I did this test once on someone from ICC and found that he was cheating. I did not notify ICC about this since I cannot be absolutely certain that this is a good test and I ddin't want to accuse someone if I wasn't certain. As to why someone would cheat? One reason is that by getting a high rating you get to play against better players and the game is more of a challenge. Also by analyzing a game as you play you can compare your choice of moves with the computer's and this can be very instructive. Also with a high rating you get bragging rights on the forums, "Look at my high rating and my big peepee."

I keep thinking for reasons why someone might use bots or other assistance.

The most logical motivation I think is to just prove you can... I'm not talking about using a bot, I mean creating a bot or enigne and testing it.

Think about it.  There once was a time when a computer virus was only a prank.  Often written by computer students just to prove they could... now computer viruses are just malicious or criminal.  Still, the good guys should not be shamed away from experimenting with this knowledge.

Now, using something someone else built just for "bragging rights", bragging right for what?  Just don't buy that... not saying its not possible.  Just seems like a bubble that will quickly pop... don't you think?  Having a high rating means maintaining it...  many games... if you play 10 games what does that prove?  You played a few high rated players that had a bad day or game?

Yeah, but there is financial gain for using bots in WoW. I dont think you understand why they do it. It's not the same motivation as someone using a chess bot on a website like this.

I think the main motivation for people using engine assistance in chess is simply to feel powerful and strong. In some cases, it's also to try and overcome the frustration of not being a very strong player (or not strong enough in their own eyes, whatever their standard can be).

Some young players probably just do it to mess with you because they find it funny. I had the case a few years back when a young engine user played me in standard and taunted me during the whole game saying things like "so, you're a chess coach ?"

Hmm... "Bully" chess... I have to think about that... not saying it isn’t possible… I have seen some aggressive tendencies in younger players, mostly from frustration I think…

When I see this I ask them to take a deep breath and ensure them this is just part of the game, controlling those feelings and work on thinking clearly, they usually seem to learn to cool down when supported here.

Now, facing this from your opponent, even if you know it’s a child… I can see how that might be aggravating even as an adult.  I’m guessing they might have been redirecting some other frustration at you… maybe.  (just my first impression on this)

This might explaing the high number of accounts involved in the WoW scandal.  That sounds good for chess on the cheating side of the discussion...