Double Forfeit?

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Avatar of pfren
nonotrocosto2011 wrote:
 

Wow. That's such a sad but incredible story at the same time. One question though (even less likely to happen): what if the other one (the IM) lost on time? I am pretty sure you have to claim the victory if someone has no time left right ? Here would it be a draw ?

This is obviously a case of "medical emergency" and it's the duty of the arbiter to stop the clock.

And when going to stop the clock, he would obviously notice if one of the flags has fallen.

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
pfren wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
 

If 0-0 is against the rules, which rule SPECIFICALLY prevents it?

Article 5 of the FIDE Rules of Chess. There it is written that a normal game (which means: both players being present at the board, and the game being started normally) can end as a win for either player, or a draw. There is no such thing as a loss, or win for both.

A loss for both players or double forfeit can only occur as a penalty for rules violation from both players, or if both players do not appear to play.

Notice here that a 0-0 could also happen if both players did not appear at the resume of a game (after a game adjournment), but today there are no game adjournments, so there is no need for a rule about this.

Some 16 years ago, there was a game in the first round of an open tournament in Greece. The player with the white pieces (a Greek FM) was winning, but he had a stroke. His opponent (an Israeli IM) tried to save him (he is a doctor) but eventually the poor man passed away. The arbiter was about to declare the IM as the winner of the game, but this kind soul claimed that he intended to resign when the opponent had the stroke, and that the point should posthumously be given to the late FM. And this is precisely what happened: The unlucky player was awarded the win after he had passed away. The IM did not play a game of chess for quite some time, and today he is a Grandmaster.

No 0-0 here either, and this is one of the most extreme cases one can think of.

Thank you. I looked at article 5 but I didn't see anything that specifically prevents a total match score of less than 1. I also looked at article 11 and didn't see it either.

I guess I'm confused because instances of total scores of less than one has occurred in competition. You said there is no such thing as a win, or loss, for both. But then you also said a score of 0-0 is possible if both players do not appear or both players violate rules.

Is it just semantics or is there a reason a score of 0-0 isn't considered a loss for both players? Is it just that the score of 0-0 isn't considered a loss because it can only happen if they don't play? Someone, it might have been you, mentioned a game between grandmasters where they decided in advance to draw after only a few moves. So both were awarded (or penalized) a forfeit. If I'm not mistaken, they were both given a score of either -1 or negative half. Either way the total score would be less than 1.

Avatar of LeoAlmChess

I don't know!!!???

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
LeoAlmChess wrote:

I don't know!!!???

That's the smart answer. Sometimes people, when asked a question will make some outlandish claim, then not provide any details about why they believe their claim. Other people, like Pfren, give sensible answers. And others just say they don't know, because they don't know.

It doesn't make sense to me to say something is impossible, after it's already happened.

Avatar of cforte99

Just happened to me. I had a power shortage in my building (I was clearly winning). when i came back, apparently the guy had abandoned the game. The funny thing is, the game doesn't show up in the listing

Avatar of Martin_Stahl

Double forfeits won't show in game history

Avatar of Bartmanhomer

There's no such thing as a double forfeit.

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
Bartmanhomer wrote:

There's no such thing as a double forfeit.

Except for the times it's happened, that's true.

Think of it in terms of things that are very rare. Like flying to the moon. There is no such thing as flying to the moon. Except of course for the few times it's happened.

Avatar of Bartmanhomer

#49. Evidence please. Prove me wrong.

Avatar of Martin_Stahl
Bartmanhomer wrote:

#49. Evidence please. Prove me wrong.


https://www.chess.com/game/live/148560947390

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
Bartmanhomer wrote:

#49. Evidence please. Prove me wrong.

There is a Master here who already gave the example between two GMs in a tournament. But he didn't have to. It's easily found on the internet. It was a game between Nepo and Dubov. The result of the game was a double forfeit. What I don't know was how it was scored. I've heard 0-0 but I've also heard both players got -1.

There are all kinds of things that there is no such thing. But something that's already happened isn't one of them.

Avatar of pfren
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Bartmanhomer wrote:

#49. Evidence please. Prove me wrong.

There is a Master here who already gave the example between two GMs in a tournament. But he didn't have to. It's easily found on the internet. It was a game between Nepo and Dubov. The result of the game was a double forfeit. What I don't know was how it was scored. I've heard 0-0 but I've also heard both players got -1.

There are all kinds of things that there is no such thing. But something that's already happened isn't one of them.

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2633743

This game was marked as a "double forfeit" because it (obviously) was a pre-arranged draw, and the moves played were kept as proof. It was a punishment for both players, and not an actual game.

Avatar of hossy1231

hihappy

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
pfren wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Bartmanhomer wrote:

#49. Evidence please. Prove me wrong.

There is a Master here who already gave the example between two GMs in a tournament. But he didn't have to. It's easily found on the internet. It was a game between Nepo and Dubov. The result of the game was a double forfeit. What I don't know was how it was scored. I've heard 0-0 but I've also heard both players got -1.

There are all kinds of things that there is no such thing. But something that's already happened isn't one of them.

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2633743

This game was marked as a "double forfeit" because it (obviously) was a pre-arranged draw, and the moves played were kept as proof. It was a punishment for both players, and not an actual game.

It's interesting that piece scored the game as 1/2-1/2. I wonder what the actual score was. The FIDE, which governs the rules of chess, considered it an actual game. The movement of the pieces followed all the rules of chess, and it was scored. So I don't see how it wasn't an "actual game".

It's just one example though. There are other tournament games that have ended in a double forfeit.

Avatar of JukeLuke2024

Achievement

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
Bartmanhomer wrote:

There's no such thing as a double forfeit.

FierceFalcon2 had one a few days ago. Maybe you could tell him there is no such thing. See what he says.

Avatar of VerseNotHere

Is it a bug or does Double Forfeit games not show up in your Games History???, i refreshed and tried everything else, but still cant find the game.

Avatar of ChessMastaC
Once i played a game and before i even played the first move it said game aborted
Avatar of SDVXGrace

how??