Draw by timeout vs insufficient material?

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EndgameEnthusiast2357

The site should use FIDE rules. It's absurd that with this site's rules, black can turn a loss into a draw by deliberately letting his time run out in the top position , but loses in the bottom position if his time runs out:

jetoba
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

The site should use FIDE rules. It's absurd that with this site's rules, black can turn a loss into a draw by deliberately letting his time run out in the top position , but loses in the bottom position if his time runs out:

There are three rule sets to consider: FIDE, USCF, chess.com

In the first position, if it is Black to move and Black flags then only FIDE gives the win to White

In the first position, if it is White to move and White plays Bc3+ then White has a forced mate and both FIDE and USCF will give a win to White if Black opts to flag while chess.com would ignore the Black pieces other than the king and rule it a draw (K+B vs K).

In the second position White is in check and the only legal move is Kh1. If Black flags than FIDE and USCF would rule it a loss (because Qfc2 allows the White pawn to be advanced and eventually queen, or a draw if the d5 king and c6 queen were swapped since there would then be no legal moves that neither capture the pawn nor stalemate/checkmate the White King) while chess.com would simply ignore the black queens regardless of their position and rule that K+P can win against a lone king.

chess.com turns some FIDE draws into decisive results and some FIDE decisive results into draws.

I wonder how easy it would be to write a program to recognize that White Pa2, Pa5, Pc2, Pc5, Pe2, Pe5, Pg2, Pg5, Bc1, Kh1 vs Black Pa6, Pc6, Pe6, Pg6, Ke8 is an unchangeable draw even though White is a Bishop and four Pawns ahead.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

If checkmate is possible in any way whatsoever, flagging should = loss, no exceptions. The fact that all systems don't use that common sense rule is astonishing.

Black should lose here if he runs out of time.

chesspro501
IMKeto wrote:
MikeSwoboda wrote:
Still doesn’t explain why you get rewarded with a draw for running out of time. Isn’t that the whole point of having a clock?

Again...

You do not have mating material, so you cannot win.

Your opponent has mating material, but ran out of time.

End result is a draw.

Can you win the game?

my opponent had a queen and king.i had nothing.but it said timeout vs insufficient material

avstinpaul

okay but i had a rook and king vs just a king. thats winnable, its not insufficient material. but it still ended in a draw with this rule.

Martin_Stahl
avstinpaul wrote:

okay but i had a rook and king vs just a king. thats winnable, its not insufficient material. but it still ended in a draw with this rule.

If that's the case, you ran out of time and your opponent had insufficient material, so instead of losing, you got a draw

Taiwotman

https://www.chess.com/game/live/88527058715 
Is this a "Timeout vs. Insufficient Material"?

Martin_Stahl
Taiwotman wrote:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/88527058715 
Is this a "Timeout vs. Insufficient Material"?

Yes. Black ran out of time (or got disconnected) and white doesn't have sufficient material to mate.

fang2345
DrMike27 wrote:
5 min blitz game and I have a light square Bishop vs rook. Opponent times out and game was drawn as, “timeout vs insufficient material.” Has anyone ever heard of this rule before? Or am I just missing something...

I had and I was super mad that it happend beause I was wining.

EndgameEnthusiast2357
Optimissed wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

The site should use FIDE rules. It's absurd that with this site's rules, black can turn a loss into a draw by deliberately letting his time run out in the top position , but loses in the bottom position if his time runs out:

FIDE rules create more problems than they solve.

In the old days before FIDE rules came to the UK, an arbiter would award that game to white. The procedure would probably be for white to stop the clocks before black's time ran out and call the arbiter, who would enforce the law that can require the game to be played out.

As it should. White has a pawn so black could theoretically lose that game. In any position with a king and pawn vs king and knight, if either side flags they should lose, as both sides can checkmate each other.

csasadkansdkn219

This is a stupid rule

Arapaima12
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tygxc

@119

There is no series of legal moves where you checkmate your opponent with your lone king. So draw and no win for you.

play4fun64

If there's increment like 5/5, and both or one won't agree to draw, when will game stop? The position as below.

7zx

Probably after 50 moves

tygxc

@124

That is why you should play with increment.
With increment you can draw by the 50-moves rule.
Without increment the one with more time / who can move faster wins by time-out.

jetoba
Scorpion2_0 wrote:

hello i have a doubt my opponent ran out of time but he had a queen and 4 pawns and it was showing “timeout vs insufficient material.”

Things like that can happen in G/3 with no increment. In the game I found from your archive it was a Queen and two pawns for your opponent versus your sole king.

https://www.chess.com/game/live/101557334223?username=scorpion2_0

PartofShiv
jetoba wrote:
Scorpion2_0 wrote:

hello i have a doubt my opponent ran out of time but he had a queen and 4 pawns and it was showing “timeout vs insufficient material.”

Things like that can happen in G/3 with no increment. In the game I found from your archive it was a Queen and two pawns for your opponent versus your sole king.

https://www.chess.com/game/live/101557334223?username=scorpion2_0

I had time increament. My opponent had enough material to checkmate but still when his game time was over, it was still a draw by insufficient material.

Here is my game - https://www.chess.com/game/live/101573483141

tygxc

@128

His game time was over, but you had no series of legal moves to checkmate him, so you got a draw instead of a win.

jetoba
Shiv-angi wrote:
jetoba wrote:
Scorpion2_0 wrote:

hello i have a doubt my opponent ran out of time but he had a queen and 4 pawns and it was showing “timeout vs insufficient material.”

Things like that can happen in G/3 with no increment. In the game I found from your archive it was a Queen and two pawns for your opponent versus your sole king.

https://www.chess.com/game/live/101557334223?username=scorpion2_0

I had time increament. My opponent had enough material to checkmate but still when his game time was over, it was still a draw by insufficient material.

Here is my game - https://www.chess.com/game/live/101573483141

I'm not sure why it simply said draw but your opponent was at zero seconds and it really was “timeout vs insufficient material.”