Is it cheating to use youtube during games?

Welcome back oatmeal! =)

Make no mistake.  I'm not here for more of your idiocy.

Neither am I. ;)

Oatmeal,

I don’t know if you read everything that has been posted while you were gone. It might be a good idea to read them all. Just my two cents; which may be worth anywhere from a penny to nickel ;)

Yes, I've read it all.  I noticed you completely ignored everything I said again and just restated everything again.  Like I said, I'm not back for more of that stupidity.  

I'll restate: if there is a rule against using a physical board on chess.com, show it to me in writing.  The day that happens, I will never play another game on chess.com again.  Until that day, I will continue to use a physical board when I play long games here.

End of story.  Not interested in any flawed comparisons to otb which I've dispensed with multiple times.  Unless you are showing me the rule for chess.com in writing, I'm not interested.

That's fair.  

Modified it above to explicitly say the rule for chess.com, because I know what's coming if I don't make that clear.

that's worse than using an engine, HOW DARE you desecrate the game i hold most dear.  shame on you! 

OATMEAL,

Let me ask you this question, which I am sure you overlooked.

What if an alien came from outer space and helped a player to win using telepathy?

There is no chess.com written rule against aliens helping out an opponent, nor is there any rule against telepathy. I know, I’ve looked. ;)

Written rules cannot cover every scenario. You know that. All legal books about any subject cannot cover everything. It is impossible due to technology and the inherent craftiness of people. 

Two examples below (you can skip the next three paragraphs, which are given as background material and humor, which you appear not to be interested in.

Golf has no provisions against a squirrel, trained by your opponent, picking up his gold ball, and depositing it in the hole. His reward for doing so? Free nuts.

A balloon race, held high above the ground does not explicit prohibit a racer from owning a dart gun (and numerous darts) from which he may shoot other competitor’s balloons.

Yet, in both cases, both the trained squirrel and the dart gun are held to be illegal, even if the squirrel and dart gun are not used. Why? Because they have to potential bestow an advantage to one of the competitors.

That is what makes a second board illegal in online chess (but not correspondence chess). It can be used to your advantage of actually seeing a position on a physical board, and the possibilities of that position, that is not available to your opponent. Instead he is playing without that advantage.

Chess, like most other competitions, prohibit the use, and the possibility of use, of anything that has the potential to give one side an advantage (other than the skill of the competitors).

You already said that you make a move on the physical board first before making the move on the electronic board. That sir, falls under the category of analysis, as you cannot fail to see the position on the board (how else can you determine the notation?).

Why would you need a physical board to get the notation? Doesn’t chess.com provide the notation for you, after you made your move?

Why would you want to have an advantage like that over an opponent in the first place? Can’t you win without an additional advantage?

NOTE TO ANYONE ELSE : If anyone can show me how it is impossible not to see the new position on the board before making the move on the electronic one, please let me know.

We play chess to develop our skills,not to compete. Using engine would not improve ur skills (u want to learn how to swim,swim!) But when ur opponents made a mistake u have seen ,u look at it and use it ,it actually help u remember it,so I dont think its some moral issue.(BTW,this circumstances don't happen a lot)

Well we all need to get lives or we wouldn't be reading this.  How about we all just agree to disagree and move on?

Isee,

You seem to have all the answers. Why not spend some time and tell us where you might be right? Elaborate, show us your reasoning, and maybe even show us your (possible?) humor.

You babble and rant that people are wrong without telling how they might be wrong. Like a 7 year old. See, it doesn’t sound intelligent, nor does it help you understand me. I’ll make a deal with you. Stop throwing insults and I will do the same.

Otherwise, this thread will like degenerate into further childish behavior. You can do a better job in your posts. Please make use of your (supposed) superior intelligence.

If it will help, then I am saying, “I don’t understand. Please educate me. Show me where I might be wrong”. Then maybe make a more intelligent post?

Or maybe just not just read my posts?? Old saying; “If you don’t like where you are, move on!”

not cheating, is very fair

Now, I have to get ready for my full time job, do some shopping afterwards, then run (at least) a 5K, and do some more book writing/editing.  And see where I can’t make some more time for chess. ;)

What do you all day Isee? ;) 

Did not read.

OK, went back and double-checked that he did not in fact stick a link to a rule in that nonsense post, and, of course he didn't.  

The annoying thing, though is he is still pretending like I never responded to the nonsense he is repeating ad nauseum, when in fact I have.

From an earlier post of mine in this thread (#55), answered BEFORE HE EVEN BROUGHT IT UP (since then, he brought it up multiple times, knowing that I wasn't going to be here anymore to respond--and is now pretending I must have missed him bringing it up--nope, I just already answered it before you even said anything about it):

Also, if you want to claim the possibility that I could make a move on the board and then take it back with no penalty because it didn't officially enter the move when I moved it makes it illegal somehow, this is no different than hovering the piece over a square in your chess.com interface.  Touch move doesn't exist for most online chess servers, it's much more like clock-move.  That said, to be as consistent as possible with OTB rules, I never do that, nor do I hover a piece when playing without a real board.

So again:

It's only analysis if the player waits to input the move on the electronic board with the intention of changing the move if there is a problem found with it. For people that are serious enough about their game where they use the physical board and long time controls to mimic OTB for training, that would be counter-productive. Not saying it can't and doesn't happen, just that many (I would actually think most) that use long live games for training, are not going to go around changing their moves after they have committed to it.

As to the discussion on advantage, there are ton of things that can give advantage that are not illegal. If I can afford a faster internet connection with lower latency, I'll potentially have an advantage over some players in faster time controls. If I have a better, more repsonsive computer, better mouse, etc. All of those can convey a slight advantage.

But just as with a physical board, anyone can change those things. The only rule that should matter, if one is using a phyiscial board, is that the player is required to make the move on the electronic board that they made on the physical one. Yes, it is on the honor system and yes people can abuse it. But even if a site like this did say outright that using a physical board is not allowed in Live (which I don't believe they will ever do and even the USCL allows their use ... and I believe some of their games may even be played here), their use can and will still happen and unless someone says they do it, the site and opponent will never be able to tell the difference. Because there really isn't one.

I admire your even keel, Martin :)

Martin, Oatmeal

Thanks for your reply Martin. You raised some good points. Here is my reply.

A player with quicker reflexes is probably going to have an advantage over someone slower in a speed game, even though quick reflexes do not denote a greater ability in chess; only a quicker response time.

This is what my friend Barry keeps telling me – I do have very quick reflexes – lol!

Likewise, some countries have a faster mail delivery system than others. Which, believe it or not, can be considered an advantage for the player with the slower mail system (more reflection time!).

We know the world is not fair. Some people are faster, some people are more intelligent, some people have more money and afford faster and better PCs (or they have rich parents).

But so what? We know that is true. We expect and accept this unfairness when we sit in front of a chess board, whether it is a physical one or an electronic one.

In the case of adding and using a physical board to an already, fully functional electronic one raises all types of issues.

First, it is unexpected. Do all players that have an extra board tell their opponents that this is what they are doing? If not, why not?

Second, there is no logical reason why a player would want to have a physical board. The explanation given is that helps a player with notation. But since chess.com already provides the notation, automatically, that explanation fails.

Third, it has already been pointed out that a player, while making a move on the physical board may notice an error in his analysis and then change his move on the electronic board. That is cheating.

You mentioned how a player hovering a piece over square can be considered cheating. It is. It is changing the position of the board without committing the move. At least in this scenario there is the mitigating factor that a player must now move that piece. This mitigating factor is missing in the scenario of the extra board.

Mr. Oatmill, you accuse me of posting when you weren’t around. Of course I did! Did you expect this topic to automatically go away if you left? Nay, some of us still continued the topic.

And don’t blame for posting while you were away either. I posted here that you were at choice whether to leave the forum or not. And it is certainly your choice to come back.

I welcomed you back, and you posted “Make no mistake.  I'm not here for more of your idiocy.”  Is this what you tell me people when they welcomed you back??

Why did you come back? Maybe you like to be angry?