Is it OK to use notes (e.g. opening lines) when you play on-line chess?

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mrfreezyiceboy
JockeQ wrote:

What is that you refer to as "live chess"? 

rapid, blitz, and bullet

nklristic
JockeQ wrote:

What is that you refer to as "live chess"? 

Basically everything except daily chess.

SinkingOrSwimming
nklristic wrote: JockeQ wrote:

What is that you refer to as "live chess"? 

Basically everything except daily chess.

 

But I play live chess daily.

nklristic
SinkingOrSwimming wrote:
nklristic wrote: JockeQ wrote:

What is that you refer to as "live chess"? 

Basically everything except daily chess.

 

But I play live chess daily.

If you lively play daily chess, you may use opening explorer.

If you daily play live chess, you may not.

SinkingOrSwimming

But what if my daily chess play isn't so lively? 

Mpirani
JockeQ wrote:

I got the idea to prepare some openings in order to improve my play in the very start of the games. I'm a real beginner (1000 rapid and my memory really suck, almost Alzheimer level) so its only a few moves.

I couldn't find anything on this in the fair play police, I did not read it that careful but  I only remember that it referred to using engines. So my question is

a) would I violate the rules

and

b) do you think that it is "morally" OK? Because if that's the general view that it is not, I wouldn't do it regardless if it's against the policy or not.

On the same subject, do you think it's OK that someone helps you? Here I have my own clear opinion, sometimes my kids (who are much better chess players than me) watch me play and want to give me advice but I always tell them not to because it wouldn't feel right (towards myself or my opponents). And in principal I think it's really the same as cheating with an engine, do you agree?

Hey, don't be so hard on yourself. I used to try and learn openings and then forget all my prep by move 3. As time goes on the memory comes naturally. Even now, I barely have much opening prep, I just try and play solidly and use my tactics to win me games

JockeQ

1/2 optopic: I also just recently decided on a rule to myself to always take minimum five seconds per move,no matter how obvious the move is (like a re-capture) I still do this as a sanity check in order to reduce the numbers of blunders. But since I started this new practice a few days ago, two times my oponent has asked me in the chat if I was cheating. Well I took it as my biggest compliment ever! grin.png Even though I can not understand how anyone could even suspect that considering how bad I play, but I guess it is because that would be typical "cheat behaviour" to take a few seconds even for the easiest moves.

RobertJames_Fisher
JockeQ wrote:

1/2 optopic: I also just recently decided on a rule to myself to always take minimum five seconds per move,no matter how obvious the move is (like a re-capture) I still do this as a sanity check in order to reduce the numbers of blunders. But since I started this new practice a few days ago, two times my oponent has asked me in the chat if I was cheating. Well I took it as my biggest compliment ever! Even though I can not understand how anyone could even suspect that considering how bad I play, but I guess it is because that would be typical "cheat behaviour" to take a few seconds even for the easiest moves.

That’s smart! What time intervals are you playing? Try daily chess one day per move it’s fun and there is no rush to move

JockeQ
millerd66 skrev:
 

That’s smart! What time intervals are you playing? Try daily chess one day per move it’s fun and there is no rush to move

I play mostly 30 minutes. Any shorter than that is to fast for my slow brain! I tried 5 minuets but honestly I play like a five year old. A typical five year old that is, not one of them chess prodigies.

RobertJames_Fisher

So 30 means it takes an hour to play 30 min each side max? Hmm I like the idea but to sit for an hour for one match haha seems long that’s why I like daily. I like the idea of a 30 minute live chess. Is it hard to get a match?

nklristic
millerd66 wrote:

So 30 means it takes an hour to play 30 min each side max? Hmm I like the idea but to sit for an hour for one match haha seems long that’s why I like daily. I like the idea of a 30 minute live chess. Is it hard to get a match?

If you play daily properly with as many games as you have, it will take a lot more than 1 hour per day. happy.png

JockeQ
millerd66 skrev:

So 30 means it takes an hour to play 30 min each side max? Hmm I like the idea but to sit for an hour for one match haha seems long that’s why I like daily. I like the idea of a 30 minute live chess. Is it hard to get a match?

Yeah but I think quality (well, everything is relative... happy.png) before quantity.

And most games don´t last close to an hour, average maybe 20 (me) + 10 oponent = total 30 minutes. Or maybe even shorter than that if you count the games with a quick ending, e.g. someone blunders a queen and resigns or something.

nklristic
JockeQ wrote:
millerd66 skrev:

So 30 means it takes an hour to play 30 min each side max? Hmm I like the idea but to sit for an hour for one match haha seems long that’s why I like daily. I like the idea of a 30 minute live chess. Is it hard to get a match?

Yeah but I think quality (well, everything is relative... ) before quantity.

And most games don´t last close to an hour, average maybe 20 (me) + 10 oponent = total 30 minutes. Or maybe even shorter than that if you count the games with a quick ending, e.g. someone blunders a queen and resigns or something.

Yes, definitely quality before quantity. When you have the time, even longer games can be even better. But surely 30|0 is already a good time control.

SinkingOrSwimming

"Yes, definitely quality before quantity. When you have the time, even longer games can be even better."

 

That is a misconception. Repetition is better than duration and a single occurrence. The reason why we play longer games should not be to find the right answer. Rather it should be to plan a choice.

 

If you don't know basic opening principles, losing a lot and then going over them will save you time. Test yourself with blitz in a flashcard style approach. Then, study plans to execute after a given opening line. 

 

I have yet to see a lesson on chesskids where the teacher is spending 1.5 hours on just one game. We may be the adults here, but the learning process is the same. Many of my wins are not based on me calculating some great combination. It is my opponent flubbering on move 8 and gradually making mistake after mistake to try to get back. Having extra time prolongs me moving up to play a stronger player.  

nklristic
SinkingOrSwimming wrote:

"Yes, definitely quality before quantity. When you have the time, even longer games can be even better."

 

That is a misconception. Repetition is better than duration and a single occurrence. The reason why we play longer games should not be to find the right answer. Rather it should be to plan a choice.

 

If you don't know basic opening principles, losing a lot and then going over them will save you time. Test yourself with blitz in a flashcard style approach. Then, study plans to execute after a given opening line. 

 

I have yet to see a lesson on chesskids where the teacher is spending 1.5 hours on just one game. We may be the adults here, but the learning process is the same. Many of my wins are not based on me calculating some great combination. It is my opponent flubbering on move 8 and gradually making mistake after mistake to try to get back. Having extra time prolongs me moving up to play a stronger player.  

I disagree. Playing blitz will make you play more on instinct without much thinking. Not only that, but you will get used to playing this way. Most stronger, titled players said that 15+10 should be a minimal time control for improvement.

Some people improve playing shorter games but they are more exception than the rule. It is much better to think about your moves and play the best you can and afterwards analyze the highest quality game you can play, than just play blitz and that is it. Playing superficial moves will give you bad habits and you will play worse when you decide to play longer time controls.

That is why playing blitz is ok for strong players but everyone else should avoid it, or at least play it rarely. I mean what good is a game if you just hang your bishop on move 8 without any threat from the opponent, just because you want to play fast.

I've yet to hear any coach that says that 5 blitz games are better than 1 higher quality game for improvement.


PineappleBird

I write notes in chessable... example: "petroff: if the knight retreats, pin it with the bishop and create a double attack on the pinned piece"... I don't look at these notes while playing, but just writing them actually helps you remember this opening stuff... so Notes - yes, but don't look at them while in Live... 

PerpetuallyPinned
nklristic wrote:
JockeQ wrote:

What is that you refer to as "live chess"? 

Basically everything except daily chess.

I don't belive this to be the case in practice.

If you took lots of notes on many games of a particular opening variation and a few good lines and then studied the resulting endgames and had a strong understanding of each sides plans...you could easily get banned for assistance in daily without any proof of an acknowledged federation's rating. Let's say you played a themed opening tournament and did very well...you will now be in the spotlight.

They say you can use opening books. I'm not sure, but I doubt they have every opening book programmed with all the lines/games included. So, use those books at your risk as well after a certain point in the game.

SinkingOrSwimming

"I've yet to hear any coach that says that 5 blitz games are better than 1 higher quality game for improvement."

 

They are probably not referring to what I am talking about. They are used to getting students making quick decisions in positions they have no clue on. However, what that coach could do is say "Look student, if you play A, B, C, D, E, and F then you can spend more time on G."

 

The student goes home and either does what the coach says. If they do, then yes you spend more time on move G. However, what if you don't know A-F? Is spending more time the answer? At which point are you going to memorize A-F so you can get to G? 

 

The coach won't care. If you spend more time with B to C, that just means you are a guaranteed student for next week. They get their hourly rate regardless.

 

I am saying, learn those patterns. This is a non-issue. There are plenty of strong players that agree with this. Know your lines and know to recognize them. If you watched Sinquefield this week Yasser has already stated. If I can find a clip I will post here.

 

You don't need more time to recognize patterns. You should learn to recognize them quickly. 

JockeQ
SinkingOrSwimming skrev:

You don't need more time to recognize patterns. You should learn to recognize them quickly. 

Yeah but if I don't give myself the time to find the patterns I'll never leatn to see them.

I did play some 5 min games when I started playing and it helped me to spot direkt threats and hanging pieces but for patterns that involves a series of moves I need more time. Or maybe I should do some puzzle solving? But I like playing games, I think its more fun and that's really the main reason why I started to play at all.

SinkingOrSwimming

"Yeah but if I don't give myself the time to find the patterns I'll never leatn to see them."

Ok, try to remember the number 67 for next week. If I ask you tomorrow, you are more likely to remember it.