on the subject of cheating
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I figure it this way: it's a game. It's not OTB. There really is no way to prove it. Who cares if they did cheat? It's a game. I'm not in a tournament for any prize or anything. If someone cheats me, hey, I'm still playing chess against "something" and it's fun. Would it make me angry if I knew someone was cheating? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. At this point I don't really care. Guys like Cheater_1 confuse me. Although he's explained a billion times why and how he cheated all those time, I guess I can't conceptualize any satisfaction I would get out of it, so it's pointless to me to cheat. Everybody here, almost everybody, is a stranger that I probably will never meet. I just like playing chess. I play with ChessMaster, too, when I have time. So if someone is using ChessMaster against me...see what I mean? Just let it roll off your back.
"the only thing there is to do is deal with it..."
Good advice. I am not so worried about wins as about a good, challenging game. That's why I don't understand cheating, and why I don't care if my opponent does it. If someone wants to be a computer's slave, that is their business.
Stick a fork in this subject and let Emeril see if it is burnt out :( As for Kasparov playing here? Against an accomplished CC player he would get waxed and a Brazilan at that. People will cheat and can it be proven to a 100% crediability, probably not. One chess site is trying it and making a mockery of itself. Too much time and effort is spent worrying instead of study study and playing. The premier GM Korchnoi said "You do not play chess you understand it" In this era with the advent of chess engines you can take a simpleton and turn him into Kasparov, for a brief moment. The problem is these players haven't a clue "why" they play a certain move or opening or the basis thereof. Do I suspect there are cheaters here, absolutely they are everywhere. You have proven titled players here that aren't even close to some of the ratings here, makes you wonder who is using what flavor of drug to get their chess fix? I wonder if some of these chess geniuses here have ever played OTB, ever visited a chess club, ever had a title or even know, yet suddenly they are complete chess prodigy's? Is this a concern, heck yes! Is it the death knell of this type of chess, not by a long shot. There is a new chess engine out there called BRAIN, everyone should save up and buy that one!!!
Batman, are you related to batgirl?
sigh... no, sadly i am not... i'd be much cooler if i was... or at least i'd get to be the dorky brother (im not sure if it would be older or younger) but either the one that somehow manages to get the girls with his good looks and lack of style, or the one that provides the commic relief...
what is this brain thing you speak of... and where can i find one... i bet it would be really useful... sigh if only i had one...
Mar 12, 2008
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#8
You can have mine ... i donate it to you ... its full of rubbish and empty space so will probably need formatting ...
Mar 12, 2008
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#9
Furthermore, you can't assume that if someone is cheating all their moves will be flawless and their rating will be close to the top. I would venture to say that it might be more likely that it's a combination of the player making choices and the chess engine making choices (ie. when they reach a hard spot and need a way out). This way, the cheating is much easier to rationalize away: the player feels like their win/progress is more substantiated because they actually made decisions and perhaps took the time to understand each move they turned to an engine for.
kohai... unless its beta max i don't think its going to be compatable
If we all attributed our losses to someone whom we thought was cheating, it would indeed be a sorry state of affairs for this or any other site. Not wishing to be thought of as naive, take the results as they come and have a bit more faith in human nature, such as it is.
Mar 12, 2008
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#12
batmanmg wrote: kohai... unless its beta max i don't think its going to be compatable
WOW thats a name i haven't heard in a while - beta max .....
However, beta max can be transformed to VHS which can be changed to DVD, and USB .... damn, now i just need to change my brain over to the "Matrix" style ... then you can just plug in.
theres a person I playing at the moment and he only joined yesterday played 4 full games already and 5 in progress one of them mine and his games are tooo perfect
mate in 6 moves things like that
Mar 12, 2008
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#14
and how long have you been playing chess online and offline ?
Just because someone has a certain rating/win ratio it doesnt automatically mean they are cheating - did you make bad moves they saw, that you didn't ?
I have been playing chess since i was 10
i have been playing here since this web site started
and when a new person join this site it shows when they started and they current stats
so i have a lot of experience in losing and winning and this guy is too perfect a player
only if he was a grand chess master could he do those moves
Let's not bother about cheats. Doing so would reduce the enjoyment we get from playing the game we all love most, CHESS.
heartford wrote:
I have been playing chess since i was 10
i have been playing here since this web site started
and when a new person join this site it shows when they started and they current stats
so i have a lot of experience in losing and winning and this guy is too perfect a player
only if he was a grand chess master could he do those moves
I looked up this player who's allegedly cheating, and these quick mates aren't the result of a computer program or grandmaster-style play. In these quick mate wins, he always plays the same trap... 1.e4...2.Bc4 3...Qf3 targeting the f7 square. Players at or below a certain skill level probably won't see it, but those above a certain skill level most definitely would. A stronger player wouldn't go for the cheap mate, but would develop a superior opening... and a computer engine certainly wouldn't recommend this line either.
I've said it on a thread last night... public forums AREN'T the place for accusing people of cheating. The proper method is to contact the administrators and let them investigate it. This guy may be exploiting the lack of knowledge of his opponents, but the last I heard, that's not cheating.
Mar 12, 2008
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#18
Regardless of what has been said , and in what ever manner ..... it still sounds like a witch hunt.
Mar 12, 2008
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#19
As I get older I have realised that the more I know, the less I know. So while I know more each year, I find that the sum of all knowledge is greater than I previously thought. I now have a maxim 'The knowledgeable man speaks but the wise man listens'.
Heartford, Retguvvie is giving you some valuable free advice. I'd listen to him if I were you. I am.
who hijacked my thread and turned it into one of those self conceided little... ooo look at me and my problems... get off of my thread... as for everyone else... keep at it... your comments are greatly apreciated by one and all who view this topic...
and since "that guy" (he's not important enough to scroll up to his name) seemed to have totaly missed the point i was getting at, i'll reiterate... there are cheaters out there... and unless you are god... or cheated yourself like cheater_1 and still lost,,, you will never be able to be sure they were cheating... there are also better players than you out there... a heck of alot more of these than cheaters... and you will end up playing them and lose, lose like so many others already have... and the miracle of it is, the universe didn't notice... you know why? becuase it doesn't care!
i would still like to know how cheaters are found out though... or rather how one can rule out a cheater...
and im sure that cheating in some form or another, occurs far more often than any of us think... its just not the strict full game, or game after game cheating that one might expect... but since it still forces you to use that brain thing monalisa was talking about,,, (still waiting on kohai for a method to get analog converted to beta max) then the only reason anyone should complain about it is when a cheater is involved in a tournament, where the object is not just to play a game... but to win, otherwise tie breakers and scores would be meaningless...
so unless your tournaments been thwarted by a rogue cheater, as ok go would say... Get Get Get Get Get Over It!
if it has however, i wonder if there is a simple remedy... well if it is a knockout tourn, then no, unless they're discovered, they win by defualt... but if its round robin (i think thats the right term) and you come in second to a cheater,,, just consider yourself the winner, and give yourself that much desired pat on the back...
how do you figure out someone is cheating? im sure there are plenty of easy ways to keep yourself from getting cuaght... so how can you? if they never lose, they're going to end up with a higher rating than everyone they play, so one may begin assuming that they are just that good... but if they are cheating, how can you tell.. if they never make a mistake? how can you tell what a mistake is if you aren't better than the computer program your playing against...
and there is another conundrum... what about those who join a low rated tournament, and cheat their way to the win... at the begining they might have a low rating, but by the end its high enough to support both their wins, and their rapid assent in rating. (excluding those playing legaly with a low rating when they're realy a much higher rated player...)
well since i'll never be able to tell if someone is cheating or not, i'll never know if im being had... although i might as well just chalk it all up to playing against a better oppenent... either a better person... or a better computer program...
more importantly than being able to tell if someoen is cheating, is being able to tell that someone is not cheating? more knowledge on that might give decline to the paranoia some players present a bit too often..
my point? well lets say Kasparov joined chess.com (under a nameless alias) and beat the pants off of everyone? if he keeps quite and keeps from being found out, someone might start to get suspicious... if you play a cheater your most likely going to lose. if you play a much higher rated player, your also most likely going to lose... it makes no difference which you play becuase your still going to lose and theres nothing you can do about it... so the only thing there is to do is deal with it...