Please Update Tactics

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Avatar of Elemental_K
Authoring this in hopes that it will gain the support of the community and the Chess.com team will make changes.
Avatar of IMKeto

You have done 21 tactics in 2.5 years.

What changes are you wanting?

Avatar of Elemental_K

Agreed. This is due largely in part to the fact that there needs to be an objective given for a puzzle. Is the objective checkmate? Capture their queen? Their knight? Without better direction it kind of defeats the purpose to me. That's why I've done so few  However, if this were to change, I would definitely play more. 

Avatar of IMKeto
Elemental_K wrote:

Agreed. This is due largely in part to the fact that there needs to be an objective given for a puzzle. Is the objective checkmate? Capture their queen? Their knight? Without better direction it kind of defeats the purpose to me. That's why I've done so few  However, if this were to change, I would definitely play more. 

OK, at least now i understand your question.  But just as in a real OTB game, there is nothing telling you a tactic exists, or motif.

Avatar of ChungYin

I think that you are meant to identify the objective yourself, there seems to be no ambiguity in the puzzles. If you can capture their queen, then don't just capture their knight; if you need to resolve a mating threat, then it's probably not a good time to improve the position of your pieces.

Avatar of JamesColeman

That's definitely not something I would consider a good idea. If that's what floats your boat though, there are tactics books with the puzzles grouped by theme. 

Avatar of baddogno

Pity you never explored the Tactics Trainer a little further.  Custom unrated allows you to do exactly what you want.  You can choose to work on any of dozens of tactical motifs.  Enjoy!

Avatar of Elemental_K
cheahchungyin wrote:

I think that you are meant to identify the objective yourself, there seems to be no ambiguity in the puzzles. If you can capture their queen, then don't just capture their knight; if you need to resolve a mating threat, then it's probably not a good time to improve the position of your pieces.

The rating system penalizes you heavily if you make the wrong move. Without an objective, how do you know what your course of action should be? When the only direction is "You play white." or "You play black." who's to know what the right move is? We all play the game differently; and there have been a few times where the "correct move" would never be a move I would make as it would put me at a tactical disadvantage 3-4 moves down the line.

Being given an objective would allow you to better chart your proper course of action and help you identify similar set ups in future games down the line. Which in my opinion should be what the tactics puzzles are geared to do; make you a better chess player in the future.

Avatar of K_Brown

A learning feature isn't supposed to accommodate your style of play, it is supposed to mold it to be better. The puzzles tell you the objective after you solve them. You should make note of the objectives that you have problems with and make an effort to address it by focusing on that theme. No one who wants to actually improve their game play wants the puzzle to come with a hint. Put in the effort and it will reward you. Looking for hints will only hinder your improvement. You won't get hints in a game.

I don't think any of the solutions given ever put you at a tactical disadvantage 3-4 moves down the line... I think that is an illusion that you created by yourself. 

Avatar of Elemental_K
K_Brown wrote:

A learning feature isn't supposed to accommodate your style of play, it is supposed to mold it to be better. The puzzles tell you the objective after you solve them. You should make note of the objectives that you have problems with and make an effort to address it by focusing on that theme. No one who wants to actually improve their game play wants the puzzle to come with a hint. Put in the effort and it will reward you. Looking for hints will only hinder your improvement. You won't get hints in a game.

I don't think any of the solutions given ever put you at a tactical disadvantage 3-4 moves down the line... I think that is an illusion that you created by yourself. 

You're confusing wanting hints with an objective for a puzzle. If every puzzle's objective was "find checkmate" that would be logical and I could get behind being rated on my moves falling in line (or not) with the best moves to accomplish that. However, when it could be ANY objective of another's choosing and I will be rated on my moves as they coincide with that kept secret, I feel like that stunts your growth a player. Also, one quick bit of constructive criticism, you should work on not assuming people's motivations for doing things. I love chess and I do want to get better and that's why I play and want to take advantage of everything the app has to offer, including the tactics. I don't think it's polite or productive to come at me like I want an easy way out, or that I'm not putting the work in. Also trying to gaslight me in your closing statement is the wrong call. You didn't see what I saw in that puzzle. I created a topic thread to discuss a suggestion I felt would make the app better. If it didn't matter to me, I wouldn't bother putting in the effort to do all this. 

Avatar of K_Brown

Gaslighting? You made an outrageous accusation without any proof. If you want to be taken seriously, you should provide an example of what happened otherwise you are just crying wolf. I'm fairly certain that these puzzles are vetted pretty accurately.

 

Secondly, "find checkmate" is exactly the type of handout I'm talking about. Who is going to say "Hey, you have mate in 3." during one of your games? If you visit the daily puzzles, there is nothing but frustration if the title even remotely hints at a theme because it detracts from the puzzle. 

I don't know what you mean by "where it could be ANY objective of another's choosing". Not really, there is a move that is best and it is your job to figure out why it is, not blame the puzzle. If you want to make something better you need to approach it with an unbiased view. Trying to fix something that isn't broken because of personal frustration very rarely works. 

You are suggesting something but can't take others input. I have no interest in attacking you, I am being straight-forward with you.  

Avatar of Elemental_K

I'm going to assume you know the definition of gaslighting, so when you say "that's all an illusion you've created for yourself." that's exactly what you're doing. I don't need to "cry wolf" as I'm not seeking anyone's approval here and as a result, don't need to lie to protect my own ego or to gain sympathy for my case. If I had taken a screenshot or something like that I'd happily provide it.

No one would say "You have mate in 3." in a game because there's a winner and a loser in a game. If tactics is a teaching tool like you say then the given objective is going to help tech you to recognize similar situations in games. The equivalent would be like me buying you a dresser from Ikea, taking the directions from you and saying "Put this together." then when you state that you think the directions would be helpful for your success in building it, I tell you "Figuring it out on your own will make you a better dresser builder." Regardless, we can agree to disagree. Have a good day. 

Avatar of K_Brown

I have a better analogy for what you are trying to do. You want to get better at shooting a basketball but instead of putting in any work yourself you think that watching other people shoot will make you better in return. 

That statement is somewhat true. You can learn a lot by watching others play, but at some point you are going to have very diminishing returns if you don't put the work in yourself.

 

The tactics trainer is very flexible and it can be implemented in many different ways, thus meaning that the change is not necessary. If you can't figure out the objective, well that is the whole point. Those are the positions that you need to study more. It isn't about making it easier to find the solution. 

If you insist on using the tool the way you claim, just make a random move at the start of the puzzle without trying and then it should tell you what theme it is. Then you can try it again. It kind of defeats the whole purpose if you ask me. It's like wanting to bowl with the bumper rails up and refusing to ever take them down. Or riding a bike with training wheels without realizing their actual purpose.

Avatar of K_Brown
Elemental_K wrote:

I don't need to "cry wolf" as I'm not seeking anyone's approval here and as a result, don't need to lie to protect my own ego or to gain sympathy for my case. If I had taken a screenshot or something like that I'd happily provide it.

 

It's simple. If you don't have proof, you have to take into consideration what will happen when you bring it up. I have done quite a few puzzles here and have never seen what you claim and I simply question how you came up with that conclusion. It seems very unlikely to me that this isn't anything but a misunderstanding on your part, especially without proof.

Avatar of Lagomorph

When solving a tactic....look for a good move. When you find it, then look for a better one.

Avatar of MickinMD

As others have noted, it's a planned part of tactics that you have to identify the tactic(s) that are used in the problem.

ALSO, note that if you click on the icon (training mode) to the left of start (it may require paid membership, I don't know) and then click "Custom (unrated)" you will get a choice of doing unrated puzzles set to specific tactics themes (Back Rank, Discovered Attack, etc.) if you wish.

Avatar of Quorum

The goal is  to get better with chess . And these tactics  did help me with that   :-)

Avatar of JamesColeman

I honestly think you mean well but are just not experienced/strong enough to fully understand what tactics training is. Feel free to post any where you feel there’s any ambiguity as that shouldn’t be the case - they should all have a clear cut solution that shouldn’t be open to dispute, and in the rare case you did find an error in a problem you could report it and have it corrected. In all cases the ‘objective’ is to find the best move. 

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