Proposed Vacation Abuse Solution
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skwirlguts
Mar 24, 2008
0
#81
I don't get why vacation is even necessary. I think one day a month is plenty.
them where u go vacation and dont get internet connection ... matto grosso??
and sure ... if u pay u want VIP treat ... but some people cant pay and like chess and chess.com is a good place for enoy with people arround the world ...so ... i mean is ok give less vacation so the people can pay even can get to much vacation ... i was working last 16 month and i dont know when i will get rest ...
erik wrote:
there is no way on earth we are going to have people ask their opponents for permission to go on vacation :)
ok! i think we got good feedback on this thread. thank you!
I have adjusted my vacation days thought...erik you put it plain like that. I would not like the idea of "asking" for permission. I do feel the members that do not pay should get the days though. I pay because I love this site, not for perks...of course the perks are cool. the idea of earning them as time goes by suits me too. maybe start with a week then add a week every so often or a day every month or whatever works.
I still feel tournaments should be exzempt from the vacation days. If you join a tournament then you should understand it will take some time, barring any family emergencies as someone else said. Then leave it up to whoever is running the tournament.
Anyway, with or without I am here for the long haul.
i have an idea
you start like you said with 5 days, but then for as many days while yu have a game going and don't use it, you gain days. You could make it like every 5 days not used is 3 vaction days or something, your call.
Mar 29, 2008
0
#85
Some more thoughts:
1. One thing you want to be really careful of is creating the perception (or the reality!) that premium members are playing chess under a different and significantly more favorable set of rules than non-premium members. Imagine, for example if FICS or ICC or Playchess added a class of premium membership where premium members get twice as much time on their clock as non-premium members. Or if premium members could take a 10 minute break in the middle of a G/10 and non-premium members couldn't. Or only premium members can use the autoflag option. Or... Well, you get the idea. Now this might provide an incentive for people to buy the premium membership, but more likely it would either cause people to leave in disgust or result in non-premium members simply refusing to play against premium members and effectively split the site into two different playing communities. As it stands now, giving premium members automatic vacation when they time-out is a (small) step down that road -- but when playing games at a X days/move pace, it isn't that big an advantage at a days-per-move time scale and it simply does something automatically for you that you could do manually for yourself. Beware the law of unintended consequences...
2. Instead of vacation being an on/off toggle, why not require someone to specify how long they're going on vacation when they turn vacation mode on -- and then automatically start their clocks when their vacation ends? Personally, I leave a message to that effect when I go on vacation so my opponents will know my absence isn't indefinite. Since opponent's expectations are a big part of the vacation abuse issue, this might go a long way towards solving it.
3. Since vacation abuse is much more a problem in tournaments, perhaps at the end of a tournament give everyone a chance to evaluate their opponent's sportsmanship. We probably don't want to go as far as Ebay does, where you can evaluate for public view the other party's behavior during a transaction complete with comments, but if 2/3 or 3/4 of the other people in the tournament vote you as a vacation abuser and the tournament director agrees, then you get a little icon that travels along with you user name (think of it as a "Scarlet V" 
) for a period of time (maybe 6-12 months) that warns future opponents about you. Also, give tournament directors an option of excluding people with a Scarlet V if they so choose. That's a consequence that's extremely appropriate for the behavior you wish to eliminate.
L8erz...
=wild=
Actually the 2nd and 3rd points make a lot of sense Wildman. I put my vote towards these two methods.
Mar 29, 2008
0
#88
Sounds like it should work well. On the other side of the equation, if you swend a welcome note to all new users where you describe vacation as sort of an additional time control, which it sort of is, the sense of shock would be minimized whensomeone first encounters it.
I am sorry, but I just dont believe people who say : "I cannot afford to pay". I mean $30. a year is too much? You go out and mow one lawn, maybe 2 maximum and you have that much these days.....have people really become THAT lazy? sad if its so 
yes i think its a good idea but also how about if you can ask for more vacation if you need it because sometimes you cannot access a computer and so i dnt thnk u shuld lose a game because you cannot get 2 a computer
Just have a "Vacation days/game" that can be set in a seek or when you create a tournament. Then the folks who hate vacations can play with no vacations, most tournaments can limit vacation days to a reasonable number relative to their time control, and those who don't care or need more time can play as they always have.
Not necessarily. I love playing on chess.com, I was an idiot to pay for a membership fee on redhotpawn.com instead of here with all the extra learning features. Anyway, maybe somehow you could make an extra couple of days during Xmas and summer, but then again, there is the problem of time zones.........
My problem is that 40 vacation days might not be enough! I am gone for 3 days (hate to time-out because my trip took 3 hours longer than expected) on the second weekend of most months, I just took a weeklong spring break (I am now down to 29 days of vacation time), and I am looking forward to spending two weeks as a camp counselor this summer, during which I will have no computer access. This will bring me down to a low enough amount of vacation time to where I can't go on a monthlong vacation (even if I use local public libraries when I am in places where they exist), and my family has a thing for 2-3 week summer vacations which sometimes turn into 4-week vacations when the car breaks down).
So what I'm saying is, when on a trip I use vacation time even when there is a good chance I'll have access to a computer during the next 3 days, just in case I don't.
By the way, I ALWAYS as a matter of courtesy tell my opponent how long I plan to be gone, and whether there is any chance that I'll have access to the Internet during that time.
I'd actually prefer to play vacation abusers for the sake of my rating...if they've abused their vacation time within the past year, they don't have any left.
PhilipN> I am gone for 3 days (hate to time-out because my trip took 3 hours longer than expected)
Hi PhilipN, if you spring for a gold membership ($30/year), vacation is automatically turned on when your games are <= 2 hours from timing out. So you wouldn't need to turn it on before a 3 day trip just in case you didn't return on time, and you could save your vacation time for real vacations... like your gig as a camp counselor or summer vacation. It doesn't matter to me whether you sign up, I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that. :)
If you have a regular 3 day obligation in addition to other typical vacations, why not just play 5 day per move games? Or you might have to come to grips with the fact that you can't fit correspondence chess into your life schedule. I wouldn't be surprised if that's true for some people.
erik wrote: DeepGreene wrote:
...if my opponent wants to blow his/her whole year's vacation to make me wait 43 days (or whatever) for the flag to drop, what's it to me? I've got lots of games to play, forums to read, etc., etc., in the meantime. It's not like anyone is limited to playing a maximum number of simultaneous games, so what's the problem?
frankly, the problem is tournaments. one person can hold up an entire event, inconveniencing hundreds of people.
Ofcourse in a tournament taking vacation should NOT be allowed. Vacations are planned events (normally) and if you are going to go on vacation soon then do not enter a tournament, simple. As for some "emergency" coming up then you simply have to "withdraw" from the tournament. Is withdrawing an option? As Erik points out, one or two taking vacation (for whatever reason) may inconvenience a hundred or more....
Rhetorical question: Come to think of it, why don't all the free users just pay the dues and become a member whose vacation time won't run out?? then no one will have to "whine" about possibly losing some games next year because they don't have enough vacation time as a freeloading user (not a paid member).RetGuvvie98 wrote:
Rhetorical question: Come to think of it, why don't all the free users just pay the dues and become a member whose vacation time won't run out?? then no one will have to "whine" about possibly losing some games next year because they don't have enough vacation time as a freeloading user (not a paid member).
too bad if that seems a little rough, it is true, and all readers know it.
anyone who suggests that they cannot afford it.... bullxxxx. if they can afford a computer and internet connectivity, they can afford the pittance of extra that it costs to belong as a paid member here.
RetGuvvie98, since this matter is put here on the table, anyone can write their own opinion .Since you don't really expect an answer ( I believe you said "rhetorical question" ) I shouldn't bother to answer....Free-users do not have all the facilities that premium members have and this is normal, I guess. At the same time, each free member is a potential advertising agent for this site, as he or she may bring their friends here, friends who may become premium members.
As for everyone's decision to pay or not for a membership here , is THEIR business not yours. To reply to your post specifically, I would have to pay double and more for the membership , since this is the banking rule in my country for any international payment.
As for the vacation time, I think free-members should have let's say half of the vacation time to which a premium member is entitled to.Things do happen and there is no way to predict what the future may bring. In this case, perhaps "vacation" won't be the right word....just some time off to solve matters of life.
Reb says: "Ofcourse in a tournament taking vacation should NOT be allowed. Vacations are planned events (normally) and if you are going to go on vacation soon then do not enter a tournament, simple."
What's the word I'm looking for, ah yes, HOGWASH!
A tournament will easily take 2-3 months, I expect often longer. So your definition of "soon" is what? 6 months? If you're planning a vacation in the next 6 months, no tournaments for you! And what if the tournament goes a little longer than you expect?
Reb says: "As for some "emergency" coming up then you simply have to "withdraw" from the tournament."
Yeah, it's much more inconvenient for someone to take a few days out of a several months tournament to handle real life business than it is to lose a player completely as a result of withdrawal. Give me a break, it's nonsense to expect everyone to play tournaments without a few of the particpants taking a vacation.