tactics rigged to show fake progress???

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doublebanzai

I've been on CT for awhile, but just switched to solely using chess.com's tactics.... wow, my progress is significantly higher here than at CT - over 1700 here, low 1500's at CT. And I climbed pretty rapidly here from 1400.......... It must be rigged, unless it's all those brain exercises I've been doing. LOL. I'm pretty convinced chess.com is way into stringing a bigger and bigger piece of cheese in front of this chess player's nose, and that the supposed progress is...............just an illusion. or is it delusion.

notmtwain
doublebanzai wrote:

I've been on CT for awhile, but just switched to solely using chess.com's tactics.... wow, my progress is significantly higher here than at CT - over 1700 here, low 1500's at CT. And I climbed pretty rapidly here from 1400.......... It must be rigged, unless it's all those brain exercises I've been doing. LOL. I'm pretty convinced chess.com is way into stringing a bigger and bigger piece of cheese in front of this chess player's nose, and that the supposed progress is...............just an illusion. or is it delusion.

The ratings on Tactics Trainer mean very little and certainly can't be compared with those on another site.

doublebanzai

The tactics chosen by the opponent in tactics trainer are OFTEN highly questionable, and seem played merely to show how the the opponent fell for the tactics in the trainer. Are these examples from real games???? They seem highly dubious. Chesstempo is much more realistic - but the chess.com interface is a lot easier on the eyes........ Stockfish on chess.com agrees that the moves in the trainer are ------------- like what???? he did that?

notmtwain
doublebanzai wrote:

The tactics chosen by the opponent in tactics trainer are OFTEN highly questionable, and seem played merely to show how the the opponent fell for the tactics in the trainer. Are these examples from real games???? They seem highly dubious. Chesstempo is much more realistic - but the chess.com interface is a lot easier on the eyes........ Stockfish on chess.com agrees that the moves in the trainer are ------------- like what???? he did that?

 

Please post examples of where Stockfish says that the moves picked as best in the trainer get a question mark.

 

doublebanzai

i'll have to find examples as i come across them... i didn't mean stockfish made questionable moves, i meant the training tool seemed to, which stockfish might correct. but afaik, the example solutions are not from actual games, although maybe the games are....  if the solutions were from actual games, then i could see qauestionable moves being made... it happens.............. i've even done it (lol)

Rasta_Jay

you maybe confusing with puzzles, which are taken from played games, it can some moves which aren't top moves. .. The tactic trainer only picks the best moves possible.

doublebanzai
Rasta_Jay wrote:

you maybe confusing with puzzles, which are taken from played games, it can some moves which aren't top moves. .. The tactic trainer only picks the best moves possible.

I haven't done the puzzles on chess.com.... I used to do puzzles more, such as the polgar book, but after I noticed some puzzles are 'composed,' I switched to tactics stuff online. although composed puzzles are sort of interesting, I really mainly wanted to improve my game, and so real game situations were more appealing....

 

i'll have to look at the chess.com tactics more. I *thought* CT (chesstempo) used real games in its tactics... and I guess maybe the actual moves played in the game? or does it use computer generated best moves... i'm not sure.  sounds like you guys are saying chess.com tactics uses stockfish to get the best moves, and I think I read that on the FAQ.

Martin_Stahl

Many of the tactics here come from real games and I believe a sub-section comes from a tactics collection that is not covered by copyright. 

 

At some point you should get to a stable rating based on the pool of tactics and their ratings. Back at the end of April the site modified the way tactics were scored and then modified it a couple of times. It is very possible they will tweak it off and on.

 

After that first change, I was able to get an inflated rating, after the second change, it dropped to around 200 below my average historically, and then settled to around my old average after another change. I had a bad streak in my last sessions so I'm a bit lower than my average now.

sea_of_trees
doublebanzai wrote:

I've been on CT for awhile, but just switched to solely using chess.com's tactics.... wow, my progress is significantly higher here than at CT - over 1700 here, low 1500's at CT. And I climbed pretty rapidly here from 1400.......... It must be rigged, unless it's all those brain exercises I've been doing. LOL. I'm pretty convinced chess.com is way into stringing a bigger and bigger piece of cheese in front of this chess player's nose, and that the supposed progress is...............just an illusion. or is it delusion.

Shhhhh!!!! Don't say it like that!! Or it'll soon be anarchy and pandemonium!  Shush!

JuergenWerner
Tactics rating on chess.com is your true chess rating
doublebanzai
JuergenWerner wrote:
Tactics rating on chess.com is your true chess rating

ru serious................ it simply is not.  I wonder how improvement in tactis on chess.com affects your actual chess game. sure it can help your chess............I assume..................assume...................

doublebanzai
notmtwain wrote:
doublebanzai wrote:

The tactics chosen by the opponent in tactics trainer are OFTEN highly questionable, and seem played merely to show how the the opponent fell for the tactics in the trainer. Are these examples from real games???? They seem highly dubious. Chesstempo is much more realistic - but the chess.com interface is a lot easier on the eyes........ Stockfish on chess.com agrees that the moves in the trainer are ------------- like what???? he did that?

 

Please post examples of where Stockfish says that the moves picked as best in the trainer get a question mark.

 

This one, id 0066048... https://www.chess.com/tactics/66048

 

instead of Bxd1, leading to mate, the tactic should be Be6.... that seems terrible and is presented just to make the tactic unrealistic and not a good teaching tool. at least in this example.

 

Martin_Stahl

That is showing/training a tactical theme and why the initial capture by white works. It doesn't matter what the opponent plays in response to the first move. The first move is always supposed to be the strongest and you should make the best continuation after the move by the other side. 

 

Ideally, you would have calculated all lines prior to making that first move and realized that it doesn't matter what black does, white is at least up a piece in the variation. If tactics were only presented that show only the strongest continuation, some patterns may get missed in training. 

 

 

Martin_Stahl

I would guess there may also be a variation of the tactic in the collection where black takes the knight. I doubt there is one where the bishop moves to e6 since white would have a couple of decent moves for white to make in that line and not one clearly best move. Or at least it appears to me that there are a couple of decent replies (though an engine may disagree).

doublebanzai

I'm trying the custom problems -- attacking f2/f7, which I really need work on.  These are unrated --- most are pretty nice, but this one (#466385( drove me to distraction. I don't know if it's possible to recall it. by number..  I couldn't solve Black Kd8 in response to the tactic, which conveniently has Kf8, resulting in mate... Why can't my tournament opponents make moves like that? Ok, I guess occasionally, rarely, they do. It's frustrating, though, in terms of chess.com. I wish they maybe selected their tactics better???? So they made sense?

Martin_Stahl

The position is still winning for white with Kd8 but then the tactic would be less about the theme.

 

Also, after Kd8, there are multiple winning lines. Since TT doesn't support multiple lines the tactic will either end before a move allowing that or will have the defending side make a move with a clear objective and theme.

 

https://www.chess.com/tactics/466385

 

 

doublebanzai
Martin_Stahl wrote:

The position is still winning for white with Kd8 but then the tactic would be less about the theme.

 

Also, after Kd8, there are multiple winning lines. Since TT doesn't support multiple lines the tactic will either end before a move allowing that or will have the defending side make a move with a clear objective and theme.

 

https://www.chess.com/tactics/466385

 

 

Thanks......... maybe I'm complaining too much.........lol........ I guess I'm sort of torn between CT and CC (chess.com) tactics.... CT seems to have...sort of the most sophisticated, but the interface and menus are kind of confusing... I'm just now trying the unrated CC tactics, which are themed, and I like so far. They seem a little limited, though, in number. But I like going over the same theme, over and over, to drill it in into my little brain..........

JuergenWerner
It is. I've beaten 2100+ classical rated players in 5/0 blitz games more than once. My classical rating is 1337 as of right now and when I beat the 2100+ rated player it was more than once and with black. Also, when I say "beat" I mean slaughtered...
JuergenWerner

Correction 2000+ rated player