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Winning draw position on clock allowed on chess.com?
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Jul 24, 2014
0
#4
repeat the above two comments approximately six times, spin around once in your chair, then you shall know the answer, guarranteed.
TheChessKnightRises wrote:
repeat the above two comments approximately six times, spin around once in your chair, then you shall know the answer, guarranteed.
Does this look like yahoo answers to you?
Over the board, you'd be able to call over the TD and claim a draw, but unfortunately there's no such thing in online blitz. All yoi can really do is wait out 50 moves.
Jul 24, 2014
0
#7
The rule is that if your clock runs down, it is only a draw if there are insufficient mating chances by your opponent (impossibility of a checkmate). While that may have been a theoretically drawn position, they had sufficient material to mate you and - therefore they won.
To get the draw (absent repetition) you would have needed to reach 50 moves with no captures nor pawn moves. That countdown started at move 113 after the last pawn was captured but your clock ran out before you reached move 163, so black won. That isn't a chess.com thing it is a FIDE rule.
Jul 24, 2014
0
#8
I don't think you could claim the draw - the 50 move rule is intended for this situation. It is up to the person that has less time to bang out those 50 moves within their clock.
Or do I misunderstand? Now you have me wondering! The only time I am aware of that a draw can be claimed (as opposed to agreed) is in some correspondence chess. For example in ICCF, you can claim a result based on tablebases once you reach six pieces. But this is because it is inevitable that the result will be reached as there is no real time pressure and tournaments could drag on otherwise.
You had fivefold repetition after 73.. Rh2+, 75..Rh2+ , 77..Rh2+, 81..Rh2+ and 93 ..Rh2+.
Why didn't you claim a threefold repetition? (You have to click the draw button.)
mattchess wrote:
I don't think you could claim the draw - the 50 move rule is intended for this situation. It is up to the person that has less time to bang out those 50 moves within their clock.
Or do I misunderstand? Now you have me wondering! The only time I am aware of that a draw can be claimed (as opposed to agreed) is in some correspondence chess. For example in ICCF, you can claim a result based on tablebases once you reach six pieces. But this is because it is inevitable that the result will be reached as there is no real time pressure and tournaments could drag on otherwise.
If your opponent is clearly making no attempt at progress (or if the position is as evidently drawn as R+K v R+K) a player may go to the TD and claim a draw.
Jul 24, 2014
0
#11
Here is an entertaining one from a blitz game. White lost...with mate in 1....and with black having no remaining legal moves...
If only white had moved a tad faster...
Jul 24, 2014
0
#12
Mainline_Novelty wrote:
mattchess wrote:
I don't think you could claim the draw - the 50 move rule is intended for this situation. It is up to the person that has less time to bang out those 50 moves within their clock.
Or do I misunderstand? Now you have me wondering! The only time I am aware of that a draw can be claimed (as opposed to agreed) is in some correspondence chess. For example in ICCF, you can claim a result based on tablebases once you reach six pieces. But this is because it is inevitable that the result will be reached as there is no real time pressure and tournaments could drag on otherwise.
If your opponent is clearly making no attempt at progress (or if the position is as evidently drawn as R+K v R+K) a player may go to the TD and claim a draw.
I did not realize that. I thought that was the point of the 50 move rule.
Jul 24, 2014
0
#13
@OP: Since your opponent's behavior was well within the rules, Chess.com will not prevent its recurrence, for that would be unfair. When sufficient mating material is on the board, the clock is a tangible factor governing the game, and it therefore must be minded. This is an understood hazard of playing blitz chess.
Rooks, being major pieces, are powerful and potentially deadly, especially in the endgame. In a King + Rook v. K + R endgame, both players must make good enough moves to avoid blunders (namely, skewers) that would lose the game. Time pressure increases this possibility.
I understand that the game you posted is technically a Live Standard game (rather than a Blitz game), but at 15 minutes per game, the time control is still very quick. By agreeing to this time control, you agreed to everything that entailed, including sustaining a loss if your clock were to reach 0:00.
Chess.com would obviously be wrong to sanction any player who acted within the rules and did not breach etiquette. Chess is a competitive game; many say it is a violent game. Your opponent did not owe you a "sporting chance," as the phrase goes. He tried to win. This was not rudeness, cowardice, or abuse; it was competition.
Please do not bother boycotting Chess.com, because, truly, you will betimes find similar instances of competition at all other Chess websites.
mattchess wrote:
Mainline_Novelty wrote:
mattchess wrote:
I don't think you could claim the draw - the 50 move rule is intended for this situation. It is up to the person that has less time to bang out those 50 moves within their clock.
Or do I misunderstand? Now you have me wondering! The only time I am aware of that a draw can be claimed (as opposed to agreed) is in some correspondence chess. For example in ICCF, you can claim a result based on tablebases once you reach six pieces. But this is because it is inevitable that the result will be reached as there is no real time pressure and tournaments could drag on otherwise.
If your opponent is clearly making no attempt at progress (or if the position is as evidently drawn as R+K v R+K) a player may go to the TD and claim a draw.
I did not realize that. I thought that was the point of the 50 move rule.
Well, I mean, it's normally intended for cases where either one side might flag before 50 moves, or in some sort of obviously drawn R+3P v R+2P ending where one side is making pass moves and trying to flag his opponent/waste his time.
Jul 24, 2014
0
#15
hmmm ok found it - article 10 of FIDE rules says you can make a claim to an arbiter during a rapid play finish (so would only apply to games with a final rapid play time control I guess) with less than 2 minutes on the clock if the opponent cannot win by normal means (they may theoretically have the material for it but it is impossible to deliver checkmate).
But I have not seen that implemented on any chess site. For example the position I posted earlier would then have been claimed as a draw had it been played in such a tournament.
Did not know that - I thought the 50 move rule always applied. Thanks for clarifying that.
Ok so I suppose this behaviour is totally normal, abusing the fact that you can't call TD.
I suppose i'm just an idiot because I got flagged by someone who tried absolutely nothing else than playing the clock in a position in which neither him nor me could do anything else than that. If i wanted to play with a ping dependant game I wouldn't go on a chess site (and guess what, that's what I do!) I was not on fucking time pressure since the position was drawn while I had 7mn left. The guy just repeatedly declined every draw I proposed. Now if this is normal, just keep playing for your "competition" with kids on the internet. I just hope you won't get molested too hard when you will do this in a real tournament in real life.
End of topic, get back to masturbate on your "competition is cruel" or whatever other absurdity you want to invoke for your own ego.
f me that is the longest game i have ever seen...
DoigteurFou wrote:
Ok so I suppose this behaviour is totally normal, abusing the fact that you can't call TD.
I suppose i'm just an idiot because I got flagged by someone who tried absolutely nothing else than playing the clock in a position in which neither him nor me could do anything else than that. If i wanted to play with a ping dependant game I wouldn't go on a chess site (and guess what, that's what I do!) I was not on fucking time pressure since the position was drawn while I had 7mn left. The guy just repeatedly declined every draw I proposed. Now if this is normal, just keep playing for your "competition" with kids on the internet. I just hope you won't get molested too hard when you will do this in a real tournament in real life.
End of topic, get back to masturbate on your "competition is cruel" or whatever other absurdity you want to invoke for your own ego.
If you have a threefold repitition, he doesn't have to agree.
How do I claim a draw?
In Live Chess, the 'Draw' button is generally used to offer your opponent a draw, which may be accepted or declined. However, in the instance of Three-fold Repetition, you can use the 'Draw' button to claim a draw, without your opponent having an option to decline.
Once the position has repeated three times, make your move then click on the 'Draw' button. This ends the game as a draw.
In online or turn-based chess, once the position is repeated three times, make your move. Now, on the screen for that game, just below the notations box there will be text for you to click on that says 'claim game'. Click on that to claim the draw. This method also works for the 50-move rule, which states that the game may be drawn if 50 moves (2 ply) are played with no captures and no pawn moves.
Finally, note that in cases where the opponent has insufficient material to mate (lone King, King + Knight, King + Bishop, King + 2 Knights) a draw will be automatically declared where there is a time-out.
keywords: draw 50 move threefold three-fold 3-fold 3 repeated position claim draw drawn repetition fifty
To the OP:- You could've claimed the draw due to threefold repetition, but you didn't! Then why say that your opponent's behavior was rude? You lost on time due to your not clicking on the claim draw button.
I just played with someone who spent the last 10mn of the game doing random moves not to repeat positions in draw endgame to win on the clock.
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e4 e6 4.Bxc4 Nc6 5.Ne2 Bb4+ 6.Nbc3 Ba5 7.O-O Bb6 8.Be3 Nge7 9.a3 O-O 10.Na4 a6
11.Nxb6 cxb6 12.b4 b5 13.Bb3 Ng6 14.Qd2 Qh4 15.f3 e5 16.Bg5 Qh5 17.Ng3 Qxg5 18.Qxg5 Nxd4 19.Bd5 Re8 20.Qd2 Ne6
21.Nf5 Ngf4 22.Nd6 Rd8 23.Nxc8 Nxd5 24.exd5 Raxc8 25.Rac1 Nd4 26.f4 Rxc1 27.Qxc1 Ne2+ 28.Kf2 Nxc1 29.Rxc1 exf4 30.Kf3 h6
31.Rd1 Rd6 32.Kxf4 f6 33.g4 Kf7 34.h4 g6 35.h5 gxh5 36.gxh5 Ke7 37.Ke4 Kf7 38.Rc1 Rd7 39.Rg1 Rd8 40.Rg6 Rh8
41.d6 Ke6 42.d7 Kxd7 43.Rxf6 Re8+ 44.Kd5 Rh8 45.Rb6 Kc7 46.Kc5 Rh7 47.Rd6 Rh8 48.Rb6 Rh7 49.Rd6 Rf7 50.Rxh6 Rf5+
51.Kd4 Rf3 52.Rh7+ Kb6 53.Rg7 Rxa3 54.h6 Rh3 55.h7 Rh5 56.Rf7 a5 57.bxa5+ Kxa5 58.Rxb7 b4 59.Re7 Ka4 60.Ra7+ Kb5
61.Rg7 Ka4 62.Ra7+ Kb3 63.Kd3 Kb2 64.Kd2 b3 65.Rc7 Rh2+ 66.Kd3 Rh3+ 67.Kd2 Rh2+ 68.Kd3 Kb1 69.Ra7 b2 70.Rc7 Ka1
71.Ra7+ Kb1 72.Rc7 Rh3+ 73.Kd2 Rh2+ 74.Kd3 Rh1 75.Kd2 Rh2+ 76.Kd3 Rh4 77.Kd2 Rh2+ 78.Kd3 Ka1 79.Ra7+ Kb1 80.Rc7 Rh1
81.Kd2 Rh2+ 82.Kd3 Rh1 83.Kd2 Rh6 84.Kd3 Rd6+ 85.Ke2 Rh6 86.Kd2 Rd6+ 87.Ke2 Re6+ 88.Kd2 Rh6 89.Ke2 Ka2 90.Ra7+ Kb3
91.Rb7+ Kc2 92.Rc7+ Kb1 93.Kd2 Rh2+ 94.Kd3 Rh4 95.Kd2 Rh5 96.Kd3 Rh6 97.Kd2 Rh5 98.Kd3 Rh3+ 99.Kd2 Rh4 100.Kd3 Rh5
101.Kd2 Rh6 102.Kd3 Rd6+ 103.Ke2 Re6+ 104.Kd2 Rh6 105.Kd3 Ka1 106.Ra7+ Kb1 107.Rc7 Ka2 108.Ra7+ Kb3 109.Rb7+ Ka3 110.Ra7+ Kb4
111.Rb7+ Ka5 112.Rxb2 Rxh7 113.Kc3 Rh4 114.Kc2 Rh3 115.Kb1 Ka4 116.Ra2+ Kb4 117.Kb2 Rh2+ 118.Kb1 Rh3 119.Rc2 Kb3 120.Rb2+ Ka3
121.Ra2+ Kb4 122.Rb2+ Kc4 123.Rc2+ Kd4 124.Rd2+ Kc3 125.Rc2+ Kd3 126.Kb2 Kd4 127.Rd2+ Kc4 128.Rc2+ Kb4 129.Kb1 Rg3 130.Rb2+ Kc5
131.Rc2+ Kd4 0-1
This guy: http://www.chess.com/members/view/Mayhemus
Unless I missed something in the last years I didn't play chess, this is clearly abuse, no? Shoudln't these players get banned or something?
And i'm not talking about someone who did this in the last 30s I had to play (which is also a disgusting behaviour but let's not discuss this). I had 7 full minutes remaining when we reached the rook endgame.
And please, if this kind of behaviour is encouraged (read if nothing is done about this) be sure i'll go play elsewhere. I'm not playing chess to play for hours in draw positions, so I won't play on a site who encourages this behaviour.