Corresponding squares
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It just means "for your information" - completely innocuous.
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Thank you really, Berder. I appreciated very much your post, the whole position, and the fact that you brought, also, a solution. Nice post, nice help.
Plutonia: Excuse me really! Now I finally understood your message. Thank you really very much for the help. I took your post as trolling!!! You're helping me!!! You mean that I can go directly to my wrong typed post and make the corrections there!!! I'm very grateful now, that I came to understand. I used to take the posts as eternally inscribed on stone!!! I'll remember forever this accident of understanding. You are very kind indeed Plutonia. I, led by misunderstanding of your language, misunderstood all, made a completely fuzzy mess! Excuse me, once more.
There is an excellent lesson on pawn endings with a part-two that covers advanced pawn endings including corresponding squares in the chess mentor ... I believe the lesson is called "pawn ending from beginner to mastery" something roughly like that... maybe David Pruess is the author, can't remember.
This is just a super interactive course. I highly recommend the full thing. Corresponding squares is not easy and it _really_ helps to have the interactivity of the chess mentor.
To be perfectly honest. The corresponding square stuff "did not take" for me... I thought I understood it at the time, but like my High School French... Je ne remember rien!
I'm going to review that whole pawn ending mentor course soon... as for French. Non, je ne want to relearn it pas.
Oct 14, 2012
0
#28
@okayokay it's definitely a draw after 2.Kg3. I Don't need corresponding squares to know that :)
White will be in time to be able to meet any Kxd5 with Kd3 drawing.
Plutonia: I not only made the corrections, as you kindly taught me to do, as deleted the unnecessary corrections. Later, also, deleted the posts guided by my own ignorance, not only of the most basic tricks on web posting but also of the "lingua franca" English. I even hadn't in my mind ideas as "deleting" my comment, no matter I've already seen many instances of this trick on our forums, nor of editing my already posted comment. Easy tricks, sure. The choices, the buttons, are all there but I hadn't functionally perceived them. Chess.com is the first web forum I take part. Fresh new, I was trolled ferociously, after my first posts and for a long while, imprinting mental scars in my schemes of perception. I'm not aggressive, but I react instinctively. Instinct betrays us more often than we would like. Your comments, here in this thread, are enlightening. Excuse my English, the words I use. I have my difficulties with your language.
okayokay wrote:
Dvoretesky's Endgame Manual on this postition:
"Taking the distant opposition with Ke1? leads only to a draw. The opposition on the e-file is meaningless, Ke1 Ke8!... etc.
And if the White king leaves the e-file, his opponent will take the opposition forever, Kf2 Kf8!, etc.
In such situations there is usually a major line, where it is important to capture to opposition. And when the opposing king retreats from it, you must outflank it, etc." Here, thats the f-file.
So, Dvoretsky goes on to explain that Kg2 wins because White will eventually capture the opposition, e.g. Ke8 Kg4! Ke7 Kg5!
Yes, the OP is an outflanking example. And the good point that opposition is useless unless there's a meaningful breakthrough to a square is mentioned by Dvoretsky. White can take opposition with Ke1, but he can't breakthrough to anything with it.
Funnily enough black can maintain opposition the entire time, but only by ceding the 6th rank (at which point the pawn is lost).
I agree with you, JG27Pyth. The courses in Chess Mentor are excellent. All of them. I studied the entire course of Pawn Endings but, if the whole thing is roughly well kept in my mind, it doesn't stress on Corresponding Squares, a pedagogical decision that, to me, is highly commendable.
bemcertinho wrote:
I agree with you, JG27Pyth. The courses in Chess Mentor are excellent. All of them. I studied the entire course of Pawn Endings but, if the whole thing is roughly well kept in my mind, it doesn't stress on Corresponding Squares, a pedagogical decision that, to me, is highly commendable.
There's a pawn ending course that doesn't do corresponding squares but I recall some kind of part two in the pawn endings course that focused on corresponding squares or had several lessons on them.
Oct 15, 2012
0
#33
plutonia wrote:
that one is a famous position. The solution is Kg1! that is the only move that wins for white.
4 other move "loses" (in the sense that black can force the draw), 1 other move allow to repeat the position.
I've seen a position about corresponding square that was much, much more complicated than that one. I found it somewhere in the chess mentor and it blew my mind. If you're interested I can try to find it a post it.
In the one above, it's not hard for black to play: the way I understand it is that if the white K is on e4 you cannot have the opposition there (because the e6 square is taken away from you). But you can simply keeping him out if you have the opposition at the right moment. The way I learned is: the 5th rank if your strongest rank and it's there that you have to hold your blockade.
Yup, Kg1. Basically, it's taking the opposition at a distance.
Thanks, JG27Pyth. I'll take a look at the second course once more. All of them need to be revised. Last week, I just got through Silman's course Roots of Positional Understanding: 300 examples!!! Wonderful course. Now I'm re-studying it: position after position again. Once ended this second round, I'll begin a third review of the same course. I don't know similar resources, competitors and so on but, to me, Chess Mentor courses bring difference in my understanding. That is, I can decipher what they try to convey. I remember the Pawn Ending course was very helpful too. Books haven't, really, the same vivid charm.
Sunshiny wrote:
plutonia wrote:
that one is a famous position. The solution is Kg1! that is the only move that wins for white.
4 other move "loses" (in the sense that black can force the draw), 1 other move allow to repeat the position.
I've seen a position about corresponding square that was much, much more complicated than that one. I found it somewhere in the chess mentor and it blew my mind. If you're interested I can try to find it a post it.
In the one above, it's not hard for black to play: the way I understand it is that if the white K is on e4 you cannot have the opposition there (because the e6 square is taken away from you). But you can simply keeping him out if you have the opposition at the right moment. The way I learned is: the 5th rank if your strongest rank and it's there that you have to hold your blockade.
Yup, Kg1. Basically, it's taking the opposition at a distance.
Kg1 is one option (Mate in 32) but Kg2 is slightly faster (Mate in 30). The solution I gave early in this thread is optimal according to the Nalimov tablebases.
What's cool is with Kg2 black can keep the opposition on every move... right up until he should clearly resign lol.
Oct 19, 2012
0
#40
A good book on the topic is "The Final Countdown"
http://www.amazon.com/Final-Countdown-Herman-Claudius-Riemsdijk/dp/185744129X
When I typed "black queen has less space to maneuvering" I wished to say "black king has less space to maneuvering".
FYI you can edit your previous post and make your corrections directly there, instead of making a second post.