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K & 2 B vs. K

  • #21

    I'd also like to know whose starting position & what engine you used oliverwood199. I don't remember seeing that one anywhere on this thread !

    Undaunted, I thought I'd give it a go & once I'd put a PGN together which took a little time, I got this (unexpected) result on a first attempt:-



    I just idly entered what seemed like good moves for both colours & got the same result. If black plays 1...e8 it's less easy - I'd like to know what you come up with then.

    (Would people please post sequence-type diagrams instead of just positions: That way we can all extract the PGN from your diagram & paste it into the game editor/analysis board & play around with it)

    Clavier, it may be time to invest in a new engine ! If I can do better than one, there's something wrong.
    I looked at the sequence you posted & think move 12.Bg3 is just bad.

    Here's my version:-



    I'm getting to the point where I can't wait to be in this position in a game but I don't suppose that will happen any time soon & if it does, I'll have forgotten most of this. I just hope some of it sticks.

    Can you think of any other starting positions that might be interesting to try ?

  • #22

    You know, I honestly thought that Fritz's moves didn't seem to make sense.  I'm going to play around with it and see if it's set to be dumb.  Maybe it's just set on too low of a setting, and it keeps that difficulty for analysis?

    I think one with a pawn and a king might be interesting since it'll require isolating the king from the pawn before doing the mate.  Unfortunately, right now, all of the ones I think of are going to be too easy or result in a draw.

  • #23

    So satisfying to know these engines aren't perfect - there's still plenty of room for 'organics' like us in the game !      Wink

    King & two bishops vs king & pawn ? - sounds fun. If you post a diagram,
    then I'll give you my thoughts. 

  • #24

    How about the K+N+B vs. K endgame? That's the hard one.

  • #25

    That's why we haven't started doing it yet :-p

  • #26

    Alright, lets see if this is possible.

  • #27
    chessblood wrote:

    How about the K+N+B vs. K endgame? That's the hard one.

    I agree with you there chessblood but one already exists here:-


    I'm still having trouble with that one - hope I never have to play it in an actual game !

    Wikipedia is really helpful too for things like this - try the following:-


    { Strange how little info' there is on this site, or perhaps I just havn't found it yet. But I searched for 'PGN' in chessopedia the other day & it came back with no result ! }

  • #28

    Is it fair to say that black's best hope is for a draw ?  Starting from that assumption, these were my first thoughts:-


    This strategy just doesn't seem to work, so I tried something else:-


    This looks much better to me - get one of the bishops onto the 'promoting' square as soon as possible & occupy or attack the next one up.
    I havn't found a way that black can win from the starting position given but it's early days ! 


  • #29

    Yes, the second one looks good.  Now one has to bring their king in to kill the pawn.  I think I see one thing you didn't cover, and that was not bringing the pawn down in the second alt.

  • #30

    One major problem with the 'red' variation in your diagram Clavier - at move 7, bishop captures pawn ! That's essential.

     This is black's predicament - the only way to attack the blocking bishop on c1 is to abandon the pawn. And if it protects the pawn then in a few moves,  white's king is going to arrive & force the black king away.  Black just can't win in this position.

    There are things about my second diagram above I don't like at all now. For instance, Bb2 is just bad. My thinking has moved on quite a bit & I only see the need for one bishop to physically block the pawn's path while the other one just makes a nuisance of itself.

    What do you think of this - can you see any problems ?


    I've tried shuffling the black pieces in various combinations but the result is always the same - white wins.


  • #31

    Maybe this person prefered to play a few more turns and left the pawn.  :-p

    This is not a win for white!  Unless this board is flipped...


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