Neustadtl-Porges

I need an explanation regarding position #670 on page 204 of "Pawn Endings" by Y Averbakh and I Maizelis. In the left hand column on page 205 after the move 16 K-N4 (descriptive notation) it says "and P-B5+". This means P-B5 wins for white. However, in the notes that follow labelled a, b and c, there is no immediate advance of the bishop pawn. I do not understand what "and P-B5+" means in this context.

16...P-B5+ - I think it should be P-B4+ or f5+ - probably a typo transcription from algebraic.   I think they just threw that in for completeness as the only other moves are covered in a,b, and c

I have since received a pdf copy of the analysis in British Chess Magazine Sep 1907 and f5 (P-b5) is played under certain circumstances. Also I have heard that "P-b5+" does not appear in the original Russian language version of Pawn endings by Averbakh and Maizelis. 

Hi - Yes- it was I who provided the pdf.  

Thank you. I have now looked at analyses of this ending in Basic Chess Endings by Fine, the BCM pdf you provided, Secrets of Pawn Endings by Muller and Lamprecht, Pawn Endings by Averbakh and Maizelis and last night, Encyclopedia of Chess Endings by Chess Informant 1982. None of these analyses considers a scenario where Black totally ignores White's kingside pawn advance, allowing the h pawn to queen and focuses on Black capturing Whites b and c pawns and attempting to queen his c pawn and arriving at an apparently drawn? position. I have been working on this with Komodo and I will continue. It has become an obsession. 

I just realized that I am overlooking the obvious. The main line in the pdf of BCM that you provided, prevents Black from capturing White's c pawn. Therefore, my analysis goes out the window. 

This leaves me with just one final question. It is regarding a note in the pdf you provided involving a possible breakthrough by Black's f pawn at move #22, where BCM claims that "White will get a Queen and be able to stop Black's bishop pawn" but does not provide the line. I have been able to stop the Bishop Pawn but unable to find the subsequent win. The saga continues.

Well you obviously know what you're discussing but it's also obviously not #670 in the Pergamon version (which is the last thing on p249) . Any chance of posting the diagram and preferably the analysis at least in the line you're talking about?

@MARattigan - The Pergamon version from 1983 doesn't include that game - he is referring to the Batsford 1973 version . It is A11.14 in Secrets of Pawn Endings by Muller and Lamprecht if you have that.

@gfbest  Re: "BCM claims that "White will get a Queen and be able to stop Black's bishop pawn" but does not provide the line."  What have you tried?  White queens on e8 or g8.  Black plays f2. White plays Qe2 or Qg2

In the pdf that you provided from British Chess Magazine Sep 1907, they mention that at move #20 Black could have played King moves instead of P-R6 descriptive, (a3) algebraic and that if Black did so then White at move #22 should play f5 with the comment "White will be able to obtain a Queen and be able to stop the Black Bishop pawn". I tried that and was able to get a Queen and stop Black's Bishop Pawn but ended up unable to find a win. Somehow I was unable to play the Queen move that you refer to. I will have another look to see where I went wrong.

Thanks. I think I have the Batsford version somewhere.

Would you please? I keep ending up with Black's pawn on a2 and can not see how White's King and Queen can overcome the advanced pawn.

Let's make sure we are on the same page - after BCM's move 20. Black to move. They give 20...a3.   You want to play a king move instead.  (By the way, I am now finding an issue with the main line where Black pushes the f-pawn after BCM's 22. P-B5 (f5), but 22. P-R5 (h5) followed by f5 wins, I think.    Give me some moves.  Interestingly, I am seeing some horizon issues with the engines, where they indicate a draw, but change their evaluation after moving along the variation.

......Ka3
h4 Ka2
f5 gxf5
h5 f4
h6 f3
Kd2 f2
Ke2 Kb3
h7 a3
h8(Q) a2

Komodo wants to play

Qb8+

I was pondering

Qh1

Your moves appear to draw. Muller and Lamprecht do some more triangulation and gain a critical tempo.

I have that book as well. Muller and Lamprecht favor a king side pawn advance by White as illustrated above. British Chess Magazine Sep 1907 took a different approach where White's King followed Black's King to the queenside and held it to the "a" file.

We have two attempts by White to win. Let's say the M&L line and the BCM line.

In a previous post which relates to M&L line, I theorized that if Black totally ignored White's kingside pawn advance and focused on capturing White's "b" and "c" pawns and Black then advanced his "c" pawn, that I could not find a win for White. Here are the moves starting with move #18 in the above analysis.

18. h5         Kxc3    Black ignores the h pawn

19. h6         Kb2

20. h7         c3

21. h8(Q)    c2

Now White to move, I have not found the win and hope that someone can point out whatever it is that I am missing.

19. h6 is not correct. 19 f5 results in a couple of more advanced passers. White still has a lot of work to do in the Q+P + Q+ P ending.

But you are definitely on to something.  I wonder what Mueller thinks 20 years hence.

I posted about Neustadtl-Porges on Chessable.com. I am hoping to find a master who will take a look at this. We can not be the only people who have looked at it.