It's a draw by insufficient mating material. So pretty much you just move the pieces around, and walk your king to the corner if i remember correctly.
N,N,K. endgame
Sort:
It is possible
very unlikely though
Mar 14, 2010
0
#5
Mate is possible, but black has to cooperate. For the corner mate, when he is checked there on g8, playing Kf8 instead of Kh8 will draw. For Tonydal's, a little backwards analysis will show that white's knight on f6 moved last, so move that to any square. Then black's king must have moved, the only square being d7. So basically to get himself mated like that, he had to play Kd7-e8 instead of taking the knight on c6
bondiggity wrote:
Mate is possible, but black has to cooperate. For the corner mate, when he is checked there on g8, playing Kf8 instead of Kh8 will draw. For Tonydal's, a little backwards analysis will show that white's knight on f6 moved last, so move that to any square. Then black's king must have moved, the only square being d7. So basically to get himself mated like that, he had to play Kd7-e8 instead of taking the knight on c6
But yeah, without a black piece, I don't see how you can force this. Actually, KNN can force mate against KP in some positions, such as:
I also like this puzzle:
That puzzle is nuts. For sure would would have won some composition prize.
thanks for the help
Whis wrote:
It's a draw by insufficient mating material. So pretty much you just move the pieces around, and walk your king to the corner if i remember correctly.
I don't know that it is automatically considered a draw in games with tight time controls. It might be, but usually if mate is possible, the defender can't claim a draw if she runs out of time.
Mar 16, 2010
0
#10
Eebster wrote:
Whis wrote:
It's a draw by insufficient mating material. So pretty much you just move the pieces around, and walk your king to the corner if i remember correctly.
I don't know that it is automatically considered a draw in games with tight time controls. It might be, but usually if mate is possible, the defender can't claim a draw if she runs out of time.
10.2 If the player, having the move, has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may claim a
draw before his flag falls. He shall summon the arbiter and may stop the clocks. (See
Article 6.12.b)
a. If the arbiter agrees the opponent is making no effort to win the game by normal means, or that it is not possible to win by normal means, then he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim.
I think the arbiter would call it a draw in such a circumstance.
Chances of getting a checkmate with two knights is highly unlikely.
Definitely a draw, if and only if you claim it before your time runs out. It's important to know that in the case of a tournament.
With KNN v K it is well known to be impossible to force mate, but mate is theoretically possible ,if both players cooperate, which is unlikely. So the draw would only be claimable once the 50 moves were up (without a pawn being taken [obviously] or mate).
In practise, if the guy with just the K has more than 30 seconds or so he will be able to make the 50 moves without too many problems, so would offer a draw. I don't think he would be able to claim a draw outright. The other guy would be a bit of a tool to refuse and try and play it out IMO. Even a child can avoid mate v two Ns.
Eebster: your examples, are not truly 2N vs. King endgames but rather, in the first example, a QNN vs. K, in the second, black has a pawn whose presence serves to prevent stalemate, and in the third, a 3 piece vs. 2 piece competition which represent forced wins that, via part of the sequence, simplify to a checkmate with those two pieces. In a sense, while it is true that it creates a mate with two knights, I cannot accept these examples really as true 2N+K vs. K endgames. The fact remains, until proven unequivically otherwise, that these endgames can never be won without help from the weaker side.
Nice puzzles though. Very striking.
tonydal wrote:
Gambitknight wrote:
The fact remains, until proven unequivically otherwise, that these endgames can never be won without help from the weaker side.
Well, I think we're gonna be waiting for a long time...Gambit, I think Eebster acknowledged this himself (it's in his post).
This.
However, KNN can force checkmate against K with the help of a loaded gun.
Evan_ wrote:
With KNN v K it is well known to be impossible to force mate, but mate is theoretically possible ,if both players cooperate, which is unlikely. So the draw would only be claimable once the 50 moves were up (without a pawn being taken [obviously] or mate).
In practise, if the guy with just the K has more than 30 seconds or so he will be able to make the 50 moves without too many problems, so would offer a draw. I don't think he would be able to claim a draw outright. The other guy would be a bit of a tool to refuse and try and play it out IMO. Even a child can avoid mate v two Ns.
Given the rule bondiggity cited, though, it should be possible for the player to claim a draw simply by approaching the arbiter if he feels his opponent is trying to run out his clock before the 50 move rule can be claimed.
Chessboy15(AJ) You do know that I already saw that puzzle!
Apr 1, 2015
0
#19
According to the Reykjavik Pubquiz https://www.uschess.org/content/view/12985/806/ it seems that this endgame is winable with field E0 added. Can anyone explain how? I see that in the position W: Kg3, Nd2, Ne4 B: Kg1 with white to move white wins: 1.Kh3 Kh1 2.Ng3+ Kg1 3.Ne0# but in the same position with black to move it's not so easy. Can white force this position when he is on the move and if yes, how?
If anyone knows, can you post a diagram of the endgame.