Philidor and Lucena Positions

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SteveE182

Hi everyone, hoping for a bit of help!

I am diligently working my way through Silman's Endgame Course and have got to the section on Philidor and Lucena Positions in rook + pawn vs rook endings.

I've worked through the exercises and understand the theory, but does anyone know of any masters games where these positions occurred or were about to occur and led to a resignation or draw offer?

The reason I am asking is because I want to work through the moves that lead up to the positions to see how they were reached in practical play.

I think I've seen one example of in an Aronian vs Carlsen back when Carlsen was around 2600 elo, but that is it.

Thanks in advance!

justbefair
SteveE182 wrote:

Hi everyone, hoping for a bit of help!

I am diligently working my way through Silman's Endgame Course and have got to the section on Philidor and Lucena Positions in rook + pawn vs rook endings.

I've worked through the exercises and understand the theory, but does anyone know of any masters games where these positions occurred or were about to occur and led to a resignation or draw offer?

The reason I am asking is because I want to work through the moves that lead up to the positions to see how they were reached in practical play.

I think I've seen one example of in an Aronian vs Carlsen back when Carlsen was around 2600 elo, but that is it.

Thanks in advance!

https://www.chess.com/news/view/nakamura-wins-july-27-titled-tuesday

porkqupine

They say every correctly played rook endgame comes down to either a Philidor or a Lucena. I think master games are usually resigned/drawn before they reach those.

ClownPlayerSweden

at top level if you reach the position the opponent will resign because they know you know the theory. However if you play blitz and are like at most 2200 you probably can use it quite often actually. I just learned this.

Laskersnephew

Fischer-Sherwin 1958. It's in a lot of databases. Sherwin got to a drawn ending, but Fischer kept pressing and Sherwin slipped and allowed a Lucena

ClownPlayerSweden

It was not Lucena that studied this even if its called after him. It was Salvio that showed this 1634.

pfren
justbefair wrote:
SteveE182 wrote:

Hi everyone, hoping for a bit of help!

I am diligently working my way through Silman's Endgame Course and have got to the section on Philidor and Lucena Positions in rook + pawn vs rook endings.

I've worked through the exercises and understand the theory, but does anyone know of any masters games where these positions occurred or were about to occur and led to a resignation or draw offer?

The reason I am asking is because I want to work through the moves that lead up to the positions to see how they were reached in practical play.

I think I've seen one example of in an Aronian vs Carlsen back when Carlsen was around 2600 elo, but that is it.

Thanks in advance!

 

https://www.chess.com/news/view/nakamura-wins-july-27-titled-tuesday

 

All sort of crap can happen in a fast game. Of course any reasonably strong player would know here to play 94...Kg8 (or even 94...Kf8) and draw comfortably- let alone a Grandmaster.

llama51
pfren wrote:
justbefair wrote:
SteveE182 wrote:

Hi everyone, hoping for a bit of help!

I am diligently working my way through Silman's Endgame Course and have got to the section on Philidor and Lucena Positions in rook + pawn vs rook endings.

I've worked through the exercises and understand the theory, but does anyone know of any masters games where these positions occurred or were about to occur and led to a resignation or draw offer?

The reason I am asking is because I want to work through the moves that lead up to the positions to see how they were reached in practical play.

I think I've seen one example of in an Aronian vs Carlsen back when Carlsen was around 2600 elo, but that is it.

Thanks in advance!

 

https://www.chess.com/news/view/nakamura-wins-july-27-titled-tuesday

 

All sort of crap can happen in a fast game. Of course any reasonably strong player would know here to play 94...Kg8 (or even 94...Kf8) and draw comfortably- let alone a Grandmaster.

Oh wow, 94...Ke8 is embarrassing for a GM. I guess that's why fast time controls don't really mean much.

BEBRANYXXYI

Its soo cool

sndeww

I had a position in an otb game about 10 months ago where the position could have transposed into a Philidor.

Could have, because it was 2 pawns vs 1- and I dropped my last pawn. So my opponent won easily.

zone_chess
ClownPlayerSweden wrote:

It was not Lucena that studied this even if its called after him. It was Salvio that showed this 1634.

 

You must be very old.

But yes, these positions do happen at top level. I believe a year ago it happened in the Airthings masters. Usually though, it's avoided or simply resigned because they see it coming.

tlay80

Just today:

https://www.chess.com/events/2022-fide-grand-chess-prix-3-all-pools/01/Vitiugov_Nikita-Tabatabaei_M_Amin

sholom90
Could I modify the OP’s question and ask: how often does it come up in, say, club play?
GeorgeWyhv14
SteveE182 wrote:

Hi everyone, hoping for a bit of help!

I am diligently working my way through Silman's Endgame Course and have got to the section on Philidor and Lucena Positions in rook + pawn vs rook endings.

I've worked through the exercises and understand the theory, but does anyone know of any masters games where these positions occurred or were about to occur and led to a resignation or draw offer?

The reason I am asking is because I want to work through the moves that lead up to the positions to see how they were reached in practical play.

I think I've seen one example of in an Aronian vs Carlsen back when Carlsen was around 2600 elo, but that is it.

Thanks in advance!

go to chesstempo.com change it to philidor/lucena position.

sndeww

You think correctly

tlay80

A good resource, no doubt, but it's not the quesiton the OP asked.  The OP presumably has that down and wants to get a better understanding of how, in practical rook endings, you get to a Lucena (or Philidor).

tlay80
Eemil08 wrote:
tlay80 kirjoitti:

A good resource, no doubt, but it's not the quesiton the OP asked.  The OP presumably has that down and wants to get a better understanding of how, in practical rook endings, you get to a Lucena (or Philidor).

You are right. These Chess.Com training chances are not best, but there you can get even some understanding, what they mean and normal ideas. If you want to learn more of them, i recommend to you some Rook Endgame book, https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Rook-Endgames-Karsten-Muller/dp/1910093815 for example, this book is very good!

 

It's a good book, but rather techinical and tries to be both highly comprehensive (in the positions it covers) and highly detailed.  Suggestions for a few instructive and well-annotated games might be a more helpful start.