Queen vs. Rook & 2 Pawns Endgame

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Avatar of DrFrank124c

I was playing a game in my chess club this afternoon and it came down to an endgame involving my King and Queen against my opponent's King, Rook and two pawns. I agreed to a draw.  I didn't record the game or the position but did I do the right thing in agreeing to a draw?

Avatar of spawkle529

Usually you shouldnt draw because it is really easy to fork your opponents king and rook

Avatar of pentiumjs

These positions are rarely lost for the K + Q side, but they can be drawn in many cases.  The most common involves a "fortress" where black's pawns are connected, ideally chained, with one of them defending his rook and his king is close enough to guard the more backwards pawn.  In that situation white can check perpetually, but he can't gain a tempo or do anything to force the rook away from whatever rank/file it's controlling.  With white's king unable to make the necessary inroads, mate is impossible.

Avatar of wasted_youth
spawkle529 wrote:

Usually you shouldnt draw because it is really easy to fork your opponents king and rook

Even without the pawns, K+Q vs. K+R can be one of the hardest in the book if the R is next to the K.

@DrFrank - can you post the position?

Avatar of spawkle529

Hey, i did say USUALLY. Doesn't mean always.

Avatar of spawkle529

Why would he do Qc1+? obviously loses the queen

Avatar of spawkle529

Thats a draw lol

Avatar of wasted_youth

65 Qe4+ and 66 Qd5+ both win the R and the game.

Avatar of HiklopBaws

I would say to NEVER accept a draw in this position. You can easily get at least 1 pawn with the teamwork of your queen/king. And then just keep checking his/her king on the empty board, until you get a fork/pin of his king and rook. Unless the pawns are in a special position, as in they are about to promote and you can't do anything about it, NEVER accept the draw.

Avatar of wasted_youth

61. Qc5 would also have finished the job much quicker, you get the fork after max 2 moves. And 53 Qd5+ would have spared even more trouble ...

Avatar of DrFrank124c
pentiumjs wrote:

These positions are rarely lost for the K + Q side, but they can be drawn in many cases.  The most common involves a "fortress" where black's pawns are connected, ideally chained, with one of them defending his rook and his king is close enough to guard the more backwards pawn.  In that situation white can check perpetually, but he can't gain a tempo or do anything to force the rook away from whatever rank/file it's controlling.  With white's king unable to make the necessary inroads, mate is impossible.

Can't post the position because we didn't record the game as we played and I didn't think to copy the final position but I do remember it was a fortress position as described by  pentiumjs.   I was trying to fork him but this person is a very careful player and he wasn't going to allow it.  His two pawns were chained together, one was a Rook's Pawn and the other was a Knight's Pawn and they were shielding his King and he wasn't moving those pawns and all I could do was check him back and forth but couldn't figure out a way to make him move his pawns or put his Rook and King in a forkable position. It was just a friendly game and he was getting impatient so I agreed to a draw. I would appreciate it if more readers can send in  games along those lines with analysis.   

Avatar of mandalafugazi

I of course respect everyone's opinion, but would like to ask those making frank statements to NEVER ask for a draw how they'd achieve mate with the rook being guarded by the front pawn and reflexively guarding the rear pawn.  The kings are on opposite sides of the board.  Please tell me how the king (using the queen) can magically teleport to support his queen into a mate position?  In this case our other king can wander around all day without a care in the world if there are no other pieces remaining.  just saying folks.

Avatar of Cupine

You dug up 7.5 year old thread just to say it?

Avatar of BL4D3RUNN3R

Depends on the concrete position. There are well-known fortresses with Q vs RP. 

PS: I guess hardly anyone will win Q vs. R against a tablebase. Even GM fail on a regular basis.

Avatar of Imgonnawinagainstu

I love u

Avatar of Tob_Tob_Tob_Sahur67
My brother is 8 years old that’s when he’s 0.5 years old
Avatar of Sogood135367

A rook and two connected pawns versus a queen is normally a draw.

A rook and two pawns can often draw against a queen and pawn, as long as one of the squares the pawn would like to advance to is taken up by the defender's pawn and rook.