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Question: Can you mate with just a Knight + Bishop?

  • #121

    I really recommend to read seirawan explanation in his winning chess ending.

    I struggled with this mate, but after some insights of the book I mastered it, now I can do it 100% of the time, from any starting position.

     

    You just have to memorize the techniques:

    1.The Barrier with the bishop and knight (and king) that force the king to the corner

    2.The initial classic position (in the wrong corner) and the the technique to push the king to the right corner

    3. The final mate

     

    2 is the trickiest and actually has 3 techniques that you should master.

     

    When you do it, it becomes easy.

  • #122
    RubenHogenhout wrote:
    MARattigan schreef:
    Can you mate with just a Knight + Bishop? The answer would appear to depend on whether or not you're the Tarrasch GUI with Rybka. I have just downloaded a fresh version of this on a new machine after my old suffered a nervous breakdown I tried it out with this endgame letting it it play the side with the pieces with 20 minutes on the clocks and got the following. This didn't happen on the old machine. The new processor is a 1.6 Ghz pentium with 8 Gig - I wouldn't have expected that. Has anybody else had a similar problem with Tarrasch?
     
    lets start at move 12.    So 12.Bc6+ Kf8 13.Bd7 Kg8 14.Bf5 Kf8 15.Bh7   from now its all well known.   

    [Event "?"]
    [Site "?"]
    [Date "2017.09.16"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "?"]
    [Black "?"]
    [Result "1-0"]
    [FEN "5k2/5N2/2B2K2/8/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1"]

    1. Bd7 Kg8 2. Bf5 Kf8 3. Bh7 Ke8 4. Ne5 Kd8 5. Ke6 Kc7 6. Nd7 Kb7 7. Bd3 Kc6 8.
    Be2 Kc7 9. Bf3 Kd8 10. Kd6 Ke8 11. Bh5+ Kd8 12. Nc5 Kc8 13. Bf7 Kd8 14. Nb7+
    Kc8 15. Kc6 Kb8 16. Kb6 Kc8 17. Be6+ Kb8 18. Nc5 Ka8 19. Bd7 Kb8 20. Na6+ Ka8
    21. Bc6# 1-0

     

     
     

     Yes I know how to do it. My problem is that my new version of Tarrasch/Rybka doesn't. (The old one did).

    Your move 13 is a wasted move by the way. Quicker is:

    13. Be8 Kd8 14. Bb5 Kc8 15. Bd7+ Kb8 16. Kc6 Ka7 17. Kc7 Ka8 18. Kb6 Kb8 19. Na6+ Ka8 20. Bc6#

     

    If you start at move 5 instead, the whole thing should be over by move 18.

  • #123

    yes

     

  • #124

    MARattigan wrote:

    GoodKnight0BadBishop wrote:
    MARattigan wrote:
    GoodKnight0BadBishop wrote:

    If 9. Kg8 then 9... Kh6 10.Kf8 Ne5 11. Ke7 Kg7 12. Kd6 Nd3

    No 10. Kh7.

    MARattigan wrote: No 10. Kh7 The king cannot go h7 as the black king is on h6.

    Apologies. I should have read what you wrote rather than what I thought you wrote.

     

    The point is, if you want Delétang's starting position then instead of 8...Bb3 you should play:

    8...Ne5 9.Ke7 Bb3 10.Kd6 Nd3 11.Ke7 Kg7 this is quicker. But quicker still is 8...Ne5(d6) 9.(whatever) Nc4.

     

     

    Yeah. Anything works, as long as it leads checkmate.
  • #125

    MARattigan wrote:

    GoodKnight0BadBishop wrote:
    MARattigan wrote:
    GoodKnight0BadBishop wrote:

    If 9. Kg8 then 9... Kh6 10.Kf8 Ne5 11. Ke7 Kg7 12. Kd6 Nd3

    No 10. Kh7.

    MARattigan wrote: No 10. Kh7 The king cannot go h7 as the black king is on h6.

    Apologies. I should have read what you wrote rather than what I thought you wrote.

     

    The point is, if you want Delétang's starting position then instead of 8...Bb3 you should play:

    8...Ne5 9.Ke7 Bb3 10.Kd6 Nd3 11.Ke7 Kg7 this is quicker. But quicker still is 8...Ne5(d6) 9.(whatever) Nc4.

     

     

    I once watched a live 30 minute game -- not on chess dot com but real chess(where players meet face to face) . It was a 2000 vs a 1600. The 1600 had a Knight + Bishop and the 2000 had absolutely nothing. The 2000 had sacrificed his peices for pawns(thinking that the 1600 would fail to checkmate with Knight +Bishop). The 2000 got his wish. 50 moves were made and the 1600 failed to deliver checkmate. So lucky.
  • #126

    goodknight0badbishop - knowing how isn't good enough over the board

  • #127

    Estrinian wrote:

    goodknight0badbishop - knowing how isn't good enough over the board

    What do you mean it's not good enough over the board?
  • #128

    maybe in time crisis

  • #129

    I originally learned the N + B mate with Reuben Fine's "Basic Chess Endings" which is not the clearest explanation, but it was good enough and I have enjoyed demonstrating it from time to time.

    The explanation in Jesus de la Villa's 100 Endgames You Must Know is the best I've seen - it gives 10 general points compared to 4 in Seirawan's Winning Chess Endings, and it gives you patterns like this to show you what you want to achieve as push the opponent's King to the edge of the board then herd him to the corner with the same color your bishop travels on:

    null

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