Vancura position in the ending!

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Maximus_brother

There are ending puzzles called Drills at chess.com. Today I tried to solve this Vancura position and I could not.

Guys, maybe one of you decide it or maybe easily decide it. Show me how to solve this puzzle. This puzzle below:

I watched videos in YouTube about Vancura position, but their examples a little bit different!

Maximus_brother
TheNameofNames написал:

computer says that you should still do the same thing though obviously its just the first moves are different but you cut the king off and monitor the pawn on the h file, its fairly easy since he cant mate you and you can just keep giving him checks. f8 and h4

Bro, I watched several YouTube videos about it and I understood them. But in this puzzle after 1. Rc8+ Kd4. You can't go to c3 with rook as in many examples. 2.If Rc3 Rb1+. And black wins (3.Kc2 Rc1+. 4. Kc1 Kc3 andblack easily wins)

Yeah, here in this puzzle White moves and they must draw. 

But their chess.com's example is a little different and difficult I think. Or maybe this example is even wrong

tygxc

The given position is a draw. White must cut off the black king 1 Rh4 and then approach his own king.

Maximus_brother
tygxc написал:

The given position is a draw. White must cut off the black king 1 Rh4 and then approach his own king.

Well, let's try this one.

 

Maximus_brother

Guys, I found the answer!

Right move is 1.Rh4. Actually Black's plan is Rh4 - Rf4 - Rf3 and staying there forever playing Rc3 - Rg3! 

In other variations after Rh1, Black's king goes to h1 and block all White's attacks!

Thanks for help and advices!

Cupine

Approaching with the king is literally the worst thing you can do. With the pawn on h2 (which will happen after 1. Rh4), as soon as white king leaves the safe zone (a2-b2 in this case), white is dead. With the pawn on h3, if you attempt giving checks, black outflanks you and gets the king in front of the pawn with an elementary win. If you continue marching the king, black goes h2 and you have no time to get back to the safe zone. Bottom line, Kc2 loses on the spot.

#8 is the correct idea in the Vancura. White rook occupies c3 and delivers checks accordingly, depending on where the black king goes.

Maximus_brother

Guys, I watched several videos in YouTube and all of them are similar, where Rook can easily go to c3 and holds draw. But in Chess.com's puzzle you can't go immediately to c3 because there is a trick. So, Rh4 is the only right move with h4-f4-f3 plan. The same thing, but first moves orders differ.

Maximus_brother
Cupine написал:

Approaching with the king is literally the worst thing you can do. With the pawn on h2 (which will happen after 1. Rh4), as soon as white king leaves the safe zone (a2-b2 in this case), white is dead. With the pawn on h3, if you attempt giving checks, black outflanks you and gets the king in front of the pawn with an elementary win. If you continue marching the king, black goes h2 and you have no time to get back to the safe zone. Bottom line, Kc2 loses on the spot.

#8 is the correct idea in the Vancura. White rook occupies c3 and delivers checks accordingly, depending on where the black king goes.

Absolutely true!

I think you know better this position than me!

Cupine

I've just checked, the tablebase says there is some obscure alternative way with 1.Rf8!? and side checks. This is the only other drawing move. But yeah, Rh4 is much more straightforward and simple.

Maximus_brother
Cupine написал:

I've just checked, the tablebase says there is some obscure alternative way with 1.Rf8!? and side checks. This is the only other drawing move. But yeah, Rh4 is much more straightforward and simple.

Oh, good information! Thank you!

I'll try then Rf8 next time.

 

pfren
Optimissed έγραψε:

It seems a very simple draw and I don't think there's any need for Rh4. Just walk the king over. White either wins the pawn or gets a perpetual.

 

1.Kc2?? as well as 1.Kc3?? are equally awful, and lose to 1...Kd4/d5.

White's king cannot go to the d-file, as ...h2 wins on the spot (the elementary ...Ra1 and ...Ra2+ trick, winning the h2 rook).

The king has to stay at b2, and the rook should be transferred to the third rank. 1.Rh4 Kd5 2.Rg4 looks safe enough.

pfren
Cupine έγραψε:

I've just checked, the tablebase says there is some obscure alternative way with 1.Rf8!? and side checks. This is the only other drawing move. But yeah, Rh4 is much more straightforward and simple.

 

1.Rf8 is not obscure: White wants to transfer the rook to the third rank, but 1.Rg8? fails to 1...Rh2+ plus ...Rg2, and 1.Re8? to 1...Kd4.

Cupine

Ah, makes sense. I probably wouldn't even look at this move in a game, tbh. Still worth remembering.

AnimazeKing
I need to study endings more as well
Moonwarrior_1

Oh nice