What does it mean to know this (what do you require of yourself)?

So, here's a pretty standard beginner position. Obviously it's a crushing win. The main fear for a beginner would be to not give up stalemate, but this is also quite easy to avoid.

However, I would probably win this in five moves beginning with Qa5 and rolling the king down the board between the rook and queen. It's actually mate in 3 if you do it right. What do you expect of yourself? Should you see the mate in 3 or is mate in 5 OK?

Obviously, either one wins. But if you can't see the mate in 3--I see it now that I'm discussing it, but I didn't at first--well then clearly you are missing something.

Do you think it is worth the bother in these cases to try to find the fastest way or is "good enough" sufficient?

Thanks for replying. I can certainly mate from here. I just needed 5 moves to do it, whereas it can be forced in only 3.

Doing it in 3 requires realizing that our queen can cut off one central square, and our king already covers the others, therefore, there's no escape toward the center.

I guess I am leaning toward the answer: yes, you should be able to do it in 3, and if not then you really don't understand the position. But I'm not sure that's practical or reasonable.

The king taking the rook is not even a factor in the mate in 3.

If Black runs for the edge it's:

1.Qa6+ Ke7, 2.Rh7+ Kf8, 3.Qa8# or

1Ra6+ Ke7, 2.Qa7+ Kf8, 3. Rh8#

So the king never gets close enough.

But if he tries to escape to the middle it's:

1.Qa6+ Kc5, 2.Rh4 Kd5, 3.Rh5# or

1.Ra6+ Kc5, 2.Qa4 Kd5, 3.Qb5#

So he also never gets close enough.

If you start with Qa5 or Ra5, then the king can get close to the rook, so you have to spend a move taking him across the board. But that takes two more moves if you do it that way.

No worries. Discussion is good. I never saw the "short" way myself either. Pretty sure I did it exactly your way.

This endgame will be failed on your part only if white stalemates, or reaches 3-fold repetition, or the 50-move draw rule. A win is a win, so if you checkmate in 3, 4, or 5, these are all okay.

There are no bonus points for a quicker checkmate. It does not matter.

OK, everyone, thanks for the comments.

I guess I'm a bit surprised by some of them.

To me, it does matter if all you see is the lattice mate (in 5) starting with, for example, Qa5. Sure, that'll get you a full point. But if you can see more--that Qa6 does NOT allow the king to escape toward the center, because d4, e4, and f4 are already covered, and c4 and b4 can both be covered quickly enough--I have to believe that DOES matter to a larger understanding of piece interaction.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.

cool

An easy mate in 5

It's mate in 3. Yes, doing it in 5 is rather easy. That was the point of the question. The mate in 3 is not so easy, especially the one where the Black king tries to run to the center.

Ok so I didn't work it out initially. Had to see the example then make an idea for me to see and recognise. Important thing here is kings are in the middle one on sixth, and one on third, and nearly in oposition. Black is nearer queen file, this is good because queen has a greater influence than rook. Two paterns here. When the queen delivers check it must be on the sixth rank, if king moves up it is a ladder mate, if king moves down the queen and king close a box so the king cant escape towards the queen side corner. Rook to the fourth rank waiting move, king must move towards centre away from queen on fifth rank where oposite king prevents move to fourth rank, rook moves to fifth rank and mate. So it is a rook and king mate with a queen cut off in the middle of the board. I will look for that pattern in future.

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