I think the reason USCF is brought up again and again is because chess.com rules follow a similar pattern with regard to "insufficient material". But I know chess.com would like to follow FIDE rules only they can't for the technical reasons mentioned in the earlier posts. One day this will be remedied!
Why is this a draw?
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Its been mentioned many times that online chess may be the future because players entering FIDE rated tournaments in their quest for an internationally recoginised title would not have the need or expenses of international travel, hotels, eating out etc. Although I wouldn't like to see the Candidates or World Championships being played on line. Neither would I like to see OTB chess completely fall by the wayside, there are many excellent OTB regional tournaments and congresses that chess would be the poorer without.
If chess.com want to host such events as these become more main stream they, and other online chess playing sites, will need to get their heads together with FIDE and come up with a variation or appendix to the FIDE Laws and Rules of chess to be applied to the online game.
It then seems obvious to me that the USCF, and other national bodies that don't already, will need to default to the FIDE Laws and Rules of chess, if only to save their players from the confusion of playing to different Laws and Rules.
One world, one game, one set of laws and rules!
Feb 7, 2021
0
#24
jetoba wrote:
BL4D3RUNN3R wrote:
The US(CF) has chosen the worst of all evils. The FIDE rule is crystal clear, fewer exceptions.
If you time out with a whole army against a lone pawn - how does he win without help, mate? Is this an US draw as well?
The whole world consider the rule-set unprofessional, even a kindergarten.
<A> The US Chess cited giving a draw after the opponent flags is only for K vs any, K+B vs any (if there is no forced win), K+N vs any (if there is no forced win), K+2N vs any without a pawn (if there is no forced win). K+P(or more), K+R(or more), K+Q(or more), K+2B(or more), K+N+B(or more) and K+2N vs K+P(or more) are wins if the opponent flags regardless of the opponent's pieces. The K+N, K+B and K+2N are the variation from FIDE.
<B> There is an additional rule that gives a draw if there is no legal way to reach mate even when there is a lot more material (that matches FIDE).
Chess.com has chosen a less exact version of the US Chess rule that gives more K+B. K+N and K+2N draws than US Chess would, and which gives more additional material wins than either US Chess or FIDE would.
For Chess.com to match either US Chess or FIDE it would have to be able to calculate whether or not a position was one where any checkmate by the non-flagging player was impossible (such as K+4P+B vs K+4P+B where the pawns are blocked, the kings are locked behind the pawns and all pawns are on the opposite colored squares from the opponent's bishop). If it ever reached the point where that calculation could be done then the FIDE rule could be applied (and thus avoid the further step of looking at K+N, K+B and K+2N positions to see if there was a forced mate to satisfy the US Chess rule).
There is a way of implementing part A of the FIDE rule and continuing to award part B wins that that neither FIDE nor US Chess would give. That would be for K+2N to be winning material regardless of the opponent's material, for K+N to be winning material if the opponent had at least one piece besides the king and any number of queens, and for K+B to be winning material if the opponent had at least one of: pawn; knight; bishop of the opposite color. (any pawn would suffice for K+B or K+N because a pawn can be promoted to a knight and thus allow for a helpmate).
People can lobby for Chess.com to implement a watered-down variation of FIDE rules but it would take a much more involved task to try to implement the actual FIDE rules.
Is item B new in the 7th edition? USCF did not have that no legal way to win scenario in the 6th edition. The following position, at least when the 6th edition was out, was a Draw in FIDE, win in USCF, and win on Chess.com. Would this now be a draw for USCF if Black's flag fell while he was having a diarrhea problem? This used to be a win for White if Black's flag fell in USCF (NOT FIDE!)
If Black's flag fell how is that not a win for White (FIDE)?
What is the relevant FIDE Artical?
Made_in_Shoreditch wrote:
If Black's flag fell how is that not a win for White (FIDE)?
What is the relevant FIDE Artical?
Black's only legal move is Rg7#, so White has no way to legally checkmate Black. In US Chess 14D4 has been around for quite some time to deal with this. For FIDE it is rule 6.9
PS 14D4's wording is not the best but White does not have a legal continuation leading to mate because the only legal Black move mates White and Black does not have a legal continuation leading to mate because the flag was already called. That is the guiding opinion of multiple USChess National level TDs (in the US this would be the equivalent of IA-C or better arbiters).
Of course you're correct.
All I saw was 1...Rg7 2.Qxg7 Kxg7 3.Ra7+ 3...Kf8 (Kg8 or Kh8) 4.Rc8#
Completely chess blind to 1...Rg7# being a discovered checkmate.
Feb 8, 2021
0
#28
It‘s a FIDE draw. Black flag falls and White has not way to win. Wanna bet?
I fail to see where the USCF is relevant here. This is an international platform therefore the Laws and Rules for play should, where possible and practical, follow international FIDE Laws and Rules.