A positional question regarding the Ruy Lopez Exchange Variation

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taseredbirdinstinct

Is it possible to keep the Ruy Lopez Exchange Variation closed or to make it become closed, or are both sides forced to keep the Ruy Lopez Exchange variation constantly open?
Is it also possible to keep the Ruy Lopez Exchange Variation semi-closed?

Toldsted

If you want a closed position with White it is better not to play 1.e4. And if playing Ruy Lopez, you should probably play 4.Ba4 and not the Exchange Variation.

I you want a closed position with Black, it is important to acknowledge that it is not always possible to get. But you should not answer 1.e4 with 1...e5, where it is easy for White to open the position with a d4 anytime.

taseredbirdinstinct
Toldsted wrote:

If you want a closed position with White it is better not to play 1.e4. And if playing Ruy Lopez, you should probably play 4.Ba4 and not the Exchange Variation.

I you want a closed position with Black, it is important to acknowledge that it is not always possible to get. But you should not answer 1.e4 with 1...e5, where it is easy for White to open the position with a d4 anytime.

Bobby Fischer regularly played the Exchange Variation, so did Lasker.

Toldsted
taseredbirdinstinct skrev:
Toldsted wrote:

If you want a closed position with White it is better not to play 1.e4. And if playing Ruy Lopez, you should probably play 4.Ba4 and not the Exchange Variation.

I you want a closed position with Black, it is important to acknowledge that it is not always possible to get. But you should not answer 1.e4 with 1...e5, where it is easy for White to open the position with a d4 anytime.

Bobby Fischer regularly played the Exchange Variation, so did Lasker.

Yes. But they were not looking for closed positions. The exchange variation is fine, but OP was asking how to get a closed or semi-closed position. 

TheMsquare

Black can avoid closing positions down no matter what opening white chooses.. 

blueemu
taseredbirdinstinct wrote:

Is it possible to keep the Ruy Lopez Exchange Variation closed or to make it become closed, or are both sides forced to keep the Ruy Lopez Exchange variation constantly open?
Is it also possible to keep the Ruy Lopez Exchange Variation semi-closed?

There is no way for White to force an interlocking of Pawns in the Ruy Lopez Exchange, no.

Black has no motive for trying to do so.

PineappleBird

The Exchange Variation is Ruy I am most happy to see as Black... If the opponent is bad you get a good endgame immediately, if he's good you get an equal endgame... With no thought required,  I see that as good for Black...

 

The Ruy where they play c3 and back with the Bishop to c2 can get kinda closed and I find it menacing and positional as Black... Because it avoids the sharp Marshall stuff I like and it's not the silly Exchange Variation... The only reason I would play the Exchange is if you want to develop your endgame skills and or avoid someone's prep in order to boss him if you deem your endgame skills superior... endgame improving may be a pretty good reason to play the Exchange maybe 

tygxc

#7
"The Exchange Variation is Ruy I am most happy to see as Black"
The exchange variation is unbalanced.
White gets a won pawn endgame, but black gets the bishop's pair.
Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine, Fischer used to play it.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044389 
It is now considered harmless.
However, the delayed exchange variation is still alive.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2041840 
The point of the paradoxical 4 Ba4 and 6 Bxc6 that apparently loses a tempo is that black has played ...Nf6 and ...Be7, while in the exchange he needs ...f6 and ...Bd6.

pfren
tygxc wrote:

#7
"The Exchange Variation is Ruy I am most happy to see as Black"
The exchange variation is unbalanced.
White gets a won pawn endgame, but black gets the bishop's pair.
Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine, Fischer used to play it.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044389 
It is now considered harmless.
However, the delayed exchange variation is still alive.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2041840 
The point of the paradoxical 4 Ba4 and 6 Bxc6 that apparently loses a tempo is that black has played ...Nf6 and ...Be7, while in the exchange he needs ...f6 and ...Bd6.

 

That "winning pawn endgame" stereotype doesn't hopld any water, as it requires an idiot playing Black.

Same structure in the Berlin Wall ending (where Black has lost castling rights) and in the currently incredibly popular ...exf6 caro-Kann (where Black does not even have the bishop pair).

The Exchange variation as white is fine for anyone who likes technical positions, and does not care about things which tend to become obsolete- like an "opening advantage".

taseredbirdinstinct
pfren wrote:
tygxc wrote:

#7
"The Exchange Variation is Ruy I am most happy to see as Black"
The exchange variation is unbalanced.
White gets a won pawn endgame, but black gets the bishop's pair.
Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine, Fischer used to play it.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044389 
It is now considered harmless.
However, the delayed exchange variation is still alive.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2041840 
The point of the paradoxical 4 Ba4 and 6 Bxc6 that apparently loses a tempo is that black has played ...Nf6 and ...Be7, while in the exchange he needs ...f6 and ...Bd6.

 

That "winning pawn endgame" stereotype doesn't hopld any water, as it requires an idiot playing Black.

Same structure in the Berlin Wall ending (where Black has lost castling rights) and in the currently incredibly popular ...exf6 caro-Kann (where Black does not even have the bishop pair).

The Exchange variation as white is fine for anyone who likes technical positions, and does not care about things which tend to become obsolete- like an "opening advantage".

What are technical positions?

blueemu
taseredbirdinstinct wrote:

What are technical positions?

Positions where dry technique is at least as important as strategy or tactics.

taseredbirdinstinct
blueemu wrote:
taseredbirdinstinct wrote:

What are technical positions?

Positions where dry technique is at least as important as strategy or tactics.

Is technique another word for positional understanding?

blueemu
taseredbirdinstinct wrote:
blueemu wrote:
taseredbirdinstinct wrote:

What are technical positions?

Positions where dry technique is at least as important as strategy or tactics.

Is technique another word for positional understanding?

There's some overlap. Technique is drier and requires less reflection and understanding.

Placing a Rook behind your passed Pawn (rather than in front or to the side) is technique. Trading pieces when ahead in material, or trading Pawns when behind in material, is technique.

It would be over-egging it to label either one "positional understanding".