Best Openings for beginners

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Ziryab
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

The Spanish is an excellent choice for a beginner. The moves are good and rooted in the tactics everyone needs to learn. It is an opening you can begin with and grow with.

Saw a good video on this recently.

 

“I’m not sure he’s right”!

Wonderful! I would have said that he is spewing fecal matter. Of course, although Levi is one smart dude, he pushes a lot of nonsense because it builds his audience.

Ziryab
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

I'll give a perfect example of this. You can say you just need to follow principles like "put a pawn in the centre, get the knights out, get the bishops out" and then you end up with something like this:

Sure, this is still a game but if they want to improve, this will eventually be detrimental. It loses the advantage and gives an uncomfortable position. So what have we learned? Developing in a seemingly natural way falls for a common tactic. So playing this instead is better:

This is now an opening, the Italian. Learning openings IS important.

Bingo!

Colin20G

The goal of the opening is to reach a playable middle game. You pull of your pieces and castle and that's it. Learn the first two or three moves like 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 (or d4 etc) and you're fine. The reason why you should not be spending too much time on the openings as a beginner is because it is training time taken from other more important parts of the game e.g. tactics and in addition your opponent (which is likely around your skill) would deviate early from the theoretical lines you've rote memorized.

aryski21
AL0NSH0W wrote:
aryski21 wrote:

What I've learned recently is that there's no point in learning tons of theory as a beginner. I asked this same exact question on chessable (A chess site with thousands of free courses to help you), and got absolutely destroyed by everyone on there (all ppl rated 2000+). Learn opening principles, not specific openings/theory. There's an amazing FREE course by SmithyQ on chessable that goes over this. I'm taking it now and I've already learned so much, such as the importance of "time"/tempo over material gain. I no longer feel overwhelmed when going against untraditional openings. Once I reach at least 1000 elo I'll start to look into openings as I'll actually be able to understand the logic behind them and how to continue from that point forward.

Can you give us a link to that course you're following? Sounds promising...

I'm still new to the chessable site so not really sure how to get a link for the course, but if you go to the course section of chessable and just search for "Smithy's Opening Fundamentals" it should pop right up. Lmk how it goes. Also, make sure you watch the video that comes attached in the first few chapters. It's a long video and is dull at the beginning but explains that idea of time/tempo I mentioned very clearly.

h4java
AL0NSH0W wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
AL0NSH0W wrote:
harmjava wrote:

Italian, Ruy Lopez, Sicilian, French, Queen's gambit, and King's Indian defense are good open and closed options to play with both Black and White.

Why would you recommend complicated openings like the Ruy Lopez and the Sicilian to a beginner?

The Spanish is an excellent choice for a beginner. The moves are good and rooted in the tactics everyone needs to learn. It is an opening you can begin with and grow with.

I know. I'm definitely an excellent choice for a beginner. And even for an advanced one. Wait... when you said the Spanish you were talking about me, right?

Seriously, though, whether the Ruy López is good for a beginner depends on what you mean by beginner. If you mean a 1200 beginner, then, yeah, by all means learn the Ruy López (just the basics, though, not the whole thing). If you're talking about a 300 beginner, like in this case, not much point in learning an opening based on pins and pawn structures when they probably don't even know what any ot those things are.

I completely understand when when people say that Ruy Lopez is too hard for a 300 or 500 rated player, but when you cross the 1200 it all starts to make sense.  Speaking from experience.

Ziryab
AL0NSH0W wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
AL0NSH0W wrote:
harmjava wrote:

Italian, Ruy Lopez, Sicilian, French, Queen's gambit, and King's Indian defense are good open and closed options to play with both Black and White.

Why would you recommend complicated openings like the Ruy Lopez and the Sicilian to a beginner?

The Spanish is an excellent choice for a beginner. The moves are good and rooted in the tactics everyone needs to learn. It is an opening you can begin with and grow with.

I know. I'm definitely an excellent choice for a beginner. And even for an advanced one. Wait... when you said the Spanish you were talking about me, right?

Seriously, though, whether the Ruy López is good for a beginner depends on what you mean by beginner. If you mean a 1200 beginner, then, yeah, by all means learn the Ruy López (just the basics, though, not the whole thing). If you're talking about a 300 beginner, like in this case, not much point in learning an opening based on pins and pawn structures when they probably don't even know what any ot those things are.

The point is that a 300 needs to learn about pins, so if they’re gonna waste their time learning an opening, they oughta learn an opening with pins.

There’s also the old and disputable notion that an individual player’s progress follows the pattern of the history of the game.* Fr. Rodrigo Lopez sought to refute the “weak” 2…Nc6, preferring 2…d6. This idea is worth exploring at any level. So, a player starting out should play the Italian, Spanish, Philidor, and King’s Gambit. However, rather than picking up an opening monograph, opening study should begin with these games: https://www.chessgames.com/player/gioachino_greco.html  All of them.

 

 

*See Max Euwe, The Development of Chess Style

SamuelAjedrez95
AL0NSH0W wrote:

I know. I'm definitely an excellent choice for a beginner. And even for an advanced one. Wait... when you said the Spanish you were talking about me, right?

Seriously, though, whether the Ruy López is good for a beginner depends on what you mean by beginner. If you mean a 1200 beginner, then, yeah, by all means learn the Ruy López (just the basics, though, not the whole thing). If you're talking about a 300 beginner, like in this case, not much point in learning an opening based on pins and pawn structures when they probably don't even know what any ot those things are.

But you are just patronising them. If someone doesn't know about something then they need to learn to get better.

Your attitude is just to say that they are too stupid to understand it so they should never bother learning.

When they learn about these things like pins, pawn structures and tactics in the opening, they will get closer to 1200. The way you suggest is that they never bother learning anything and then they will magically reach 1200 and understand everything. That's not how it works. In order to improve, you have to learn.

SamuelAjedrez95
Ziryab wrote:

“I’m not sure he’s right”!

Wonderful! I would have said that he is spewing fecal matter. Of course, although Levi is one smart dude, he pushes a lot of nonsense because it builds his audience.

I'm not a Levy Rozman fan. Let's just say that lol.

LordVandheer
AL0NSH0W wrote:
LordVandheer wrote:
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
AL0NSH0W wrote:

The OP is 650 Elo. What you said might make sense at 1200+ Elo, but not at his level. At his level he doesn't need any openings at all, just following opening principles is more than enough for him. And if he really wants to learn an opening, then London is the best. No opening is boring at 650 Elo, at that level there's always a blunder before move 10 that makes the game go crazy. And if you play the London, you're guaranteed that 90% of the time the first one to blunder will be the other guy.

If that's the case, it doesn't matter what opening they play then if they will blunder and make a mistake anyway. Even if they play Sicilian and Ruy Lopez at 650 ELO, the opponents will also be about 650 ELO so they will be just as likely to make a mistake or not know the theory which makes it even and still good to play.

The difference is if they work on a good opening like the Sicilian or Ruy Lopez then they will actually improve.

You and I think alike from what I have seen so far. Don't understand what this guy means by "oh OP is 650 so it will be an exciting game". Okay, but what if he becomes 1000, 1300, 1800? Does London still hold in that level? Of course, it holds in GM level even. Is it fun? Damn no.

What this guy meant is that a player who is 650 NOW needs advice that works for him NOW. You want to give him advice that will work when he's 1000, 1300 or 1800? OK, but at least be clear and tell him first that that advice won't work until he reaches that level. And, honestly, why would you want to do that anyway? If you want to give 1800 Elo advice, great, but give it to 1800 Elo players.

And, as I said, he's not even really 650. His "real" Elo is more like 300.

Why not plant a seed right now so the OP will know what they are doing once they get there? You say the opponents will blunder in London as if they won't blunder in Ruy, Italian, Scotch. Universal openings that can go both positional and tactical. London is just London. Away with the safe approach, show me some fighting spirit!

Manelmorcillo

Collie system with white and pirc or kings indian defense for black...

 

h4java
Ziryab wrote:
AL0NSH0W wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
AL0NSH0W wrote:
harmjava wrote:

Italian, Ruy Lopez, Sicilian, French, Queen's gambit, and King's Indian defense are good open and closed options to play with both Black and White.

Why would you recommend complicated openings like the Ruy Lopez and the Sicilian to a beginner?

The Spanish is an excellent choice for a beginner. The moves are good and rooted in the tactics everyone needs to learn. It is an opening you can begin with and grow with.

I know. I'm definitely an excellent choice for a beginner. And even for an advanced one. Wait... when you said the Spanish you were talking about me, right?

Seriously, though, whether the Ruy López is good for a beginner depends on what you mean by beginner. If you mean a 1200 beginner, then, yeah, by all means learn the Ruy López (just the basics, though, not the whole thing). If you're talking about a 300 beginner, like in this case, not much point in learning an opening based on pins and pawn structures when they probably don't even know what any ot those things are.

The point is that a 300 needs to learn about pins, so if they’re gonna waste their time learning an opening, they oughta learn an opening with pins.

There’s also the old and disputable notion that an individual player’s progress follows the pattern of the history of the game.* Fr. Rodrigo Lopez sought to refute the “weak” 2…Nc6, preferring 2…d6. This idea is worth exploring at any level. So, a player starting out should play the Italian, Spanish, Philidor, and King’s Gambit. However, rather than picking up an opening monograph, opening study should begin with these games: https://www.chessgames.com/player/gioachino_greco.html  All of them.

 

 

*See Max Euwe, The Development of Chess Style

Besides pins and forks, beginners should learn why the battle for the four center squares is important. And that in opening moves it is wise to develop pawns, then light pieces, or you will lose a lot of tempo. That is the context in which a 500 elo should learn common openings. 

Ziryab
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

“I’m not sure he’s right”!

Wonderful! I would have said that he is spewing fecal matter. Of course, although Levi is one smart dude, he pushes a lot of nonsense because it builds his audience.

I'm not a Levy Rozman fan. Let's just say that lol.

He’s a smart dude, but much of his advice is pure rubbish.

Ziryab
harmjava wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
AL0NSH0W wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
AL0NSH0W wrote:
harmjava wrote:

Italian, Ruy Lopez, Sicilian, French, Queen's gambit, and King's Indian defense are good open and closed options to play with both Black and White.

Why would you recommend complicated openings like the Ruy Lopez and the Sicilian to a beginner?

The Spanish is an excellent choice for a beginner. The moves are good and rooted in the tactics everyone needs to learn. It is an opening you can begin with and grow with.

I know. I'm definitely an excellent choice for a beginner. And even for an advanced one. Wait... when you said the Spanish you were talking about me, right?

Seriously, though, whether the Ruy López is good for a beginner depends on what you mean by beginner. If you mean a 1200 beginner, then, yeah, by all means learn the Ruy López (just the basics, though, not the whole thing). If you're talking about a 300 beginner, like in this case, not much point in learning an opening based on pins and pawn structures when they probably don't even know what any ot those things are.

The point is that a 300 needs to learn about pins, so if they’re gonna waste their time learning an opening, they oughta learn an opening with pins.

There’s also the old and disputable notion that an individual player’s progress follows the pattern of the history of the game.* Fr. Rodrigo Lopez sought to refute the “weak” 2…Nc6, preferring 2…d6. This idea is worth exploring at any level. So, a player starting out should play the Italian, Spanish, Philidor, and King’s Gambit. However, rather than picking up an opening monograph, opening study should begin with these games: https://www.chessgames.com/player/gioachino_greco.html  All of them.

 

 

*See Max Euwe, The Development of Chess Style

Besides pins and forks, beginners should learn why the battle for the four center squares is important. And that in opening moves it is wise to develop pawns, then light pieces, or you will lose a lot of tempo. That is the context in which a 500 elo should learn common openings. 

Agreed. Hence starting with Greco. Then Morphy. Maybe some Andersson in-between.

moomoopanda
ok
SamuelAjedrez95

Another great video on this topic.

Horsy_Best

King's Indian Defense is good?

actual_knight_gaming
Horsy_Best wrote:

King's Indian Defense is good?

so is the KIA.

CARJ_23

me parece que la defensa india del rey es una buena opcion para contraarestar esa accion

SamuelAjedrez95
CARJ_23 wrote:

me parece que la defensa india del rey es una buena opcion para contraarestar esa accion

La defensa india del rey es probablemente la defensa más agresiva contra d4. En cierto sentido es arriesgada viendo que les da mucho espacio a las blancas en el centro. Sin embargo, no va a importar que las blancas tienen más espacio cuando las negras están dándole mate al rey blanco.

Es decir, la defensa india del rey es una defensa cojonuda.

Deadmanparty

My opening is pretty easy, beginners can learn the basics easy enough.

 

White 1.d4 looking to play queens gambit.  With black 1.e6 looking to play either the French or Dutch.