How many of you play games online, but have a physical board right next to you?

People really do need to get past the notion that the terms assistance and cheating/advantage are synonymous. 
A chess related “tool” can be of assistance and at the same time have absolutely nothing to do with cheating. A 2nd private room assisted Spassky to perhaps focus better, relax or some such. Korchnoi’s concerns were likely not over cheating.
The concerns are simple. A playing field is offered for matches. Players know in advance the atmosphere and agree to play with the materials provided. Anything outside of this is of assistance ( not cheating) and by today’s standards technically is against Fair Play rules . Note it’s said Fair Play and not cheating play. The objective is equality. The same conditions for both participants.  
None of this is of concern for unrated games. People here want to use a 2nd board for training purposes. Don’t players when learning new games practice as such- and play unrated until they feel comfortable? Any assistance being used in the learning stage gets discarded when they are confident to begin rated  play.

Any of you that have been to an OTB tournament, such as the US Open know firsthand that there are typically Demo boards on site somewhere. Sometimes in the playing hall, often in the hallway right outside of the playing hall (on the way to the bathrooms). 

They do not have Demo Board police handcuffing players for glancing at the boards. Just saying. It is allowed. It is the very same position they would see if they were to look at their board - it is no different. They cannot move the pieces around so it is not considered assistance. ERGO it is not considered cheating or a violation of fairplay. 

I agree, in theory. But in real life obviously here at chess.com the conditions are NOT the same for both participants. Chess.com even encourages inequality in conditions. That's why I get to use a brown and tan board with neo pieces while my opponent may choose a blue and red board with condal pieces. Clearly not the same conditions. In an otb match the conditions would be much more equal. But not here. And to chess.coms credit, they realize and endorse different playing conditions. They want everyone to enjoy the game as much as possible. 

Nobody said assistance was cheating or an advantage. Well, you said it could be an advantage actually, so I take that back. Other than you, I dont think anyone else said or implied assistance had to be synonymous with an advantage. If using a second board (again only for duplicating original game moves) is allowed in world championship matches, it's probably ok here. 

BadBishop, I see you edited your post to include comments about rated games. The world championship games are rated aren't they?

The last tournament I was at was in high school, and they didn't have those. But I have seen pictures of big tournaments where they display the game on a big board or TV screen. It makes sense to me the players are allowed to see that second board, since it's simply a duplicate of the game and moves of the original game. I guess it could be "assistance" since one player may process the information of the game better by seeing it on a big TV screen. I dont know, that would seem like a pretty loose interpretation of assistance. 

Yes, but seems like a bunch of hasbeen, neverwere, failed amateur lawyers here pontificating for 5 paragraphs. Bigheads who have obviously put their puny *whatevers* up to match the size of others many times b4.  OP had a good question, then seem that the usual egos clashed to shift into irrelevant battle mode. Trolls jumped in on the pigfighting mudmess  Three reasons I rarely even read/reply to quality freads on forums. Will give it one more day, then unfollow.

Thanks for reading,

-Seasoned voat moderator

The OP asked but a single question!

Asking how many ? What? This is a counting thread ?

I'll do it for you since you will apparently be unfollowing the thread anyway. 

Yep indeed. Bash and insult posters/add nothing to the topic- then threaten to unfollow if they don’t shape up ! The thread as been very civilized with differences being expressed. Not the usual you find here abouts.

That's true. I don't agree with you, but you've been more pleasant and respectful than most. 

My position explained-

A 2nd board is a good idea when used for training and adjustment purposes. If it is of assistance being new to the game - good stuff. When playing rated - Live games not such a good idea. Not that it is viewed as cheating but rather it is of chess related assistance- the playing field is not equally the same.

The rule simply states no outside assistance of Any Kind. Interpretations of the term assistance is the big bug-a-boo it seems. The impression is if it’s not cheating or an advantage gained - it is of no assistance. An incorrect assumption.

CC has said a 2nd board is “technically” against the rules but at the same time unenforceable. Players make their own choice to use one or not. The concern is not that players are assumed to be cheating but rather is preventative in nature. Analysis is clearly cheating . But the issue extends to “touch move” - takebacks. Players are placed in a position to never ever make one - including instant realization a Queen is lost. They must enter the move. For new players I simply think this is not the best situation to be placed.  The practice is a Disadvantage for experienced players. When time gets short as it most always does the 2nd will have to be abandoned. If it becomes a habit and felt necessary in order to play - the practice becomes difficult to stop. It’s simply not good advice to say - the practice is OK - go ahead and do it in Rated/Live games. Highly unlikely CC will ever endorse the practice and just as likely it will not be prohibited in writing with added caveats .For good reasons.

I haven't read the whole topic yet but the use of a physical board in Live isn't really any different than using a DGT or Square-Off board. Using the Confirm Move option in Live on the app provides just as much extra "assistance" as does moving the piece on the physical board and then doing the same move on the electronic board.

No one is going to be banned for using a physical board to play Live chess. It is undetectable and unenforceable. Someone using a physical board should make the move online that they did on the board, from an ethical standpoint and should not move pieces to analyze. The only way someone could be banned for use of a physical board (that isn't something like a DGT), is if they were in an event that used cameras to monitor play and that would be at the discretion of the organizer if that was allowed or not (and what requirements would need to be met).

Thanks Martin !

That already exists and they are electronic score keeping devices. If they are certified they are allowed in US Chess rated tournaments. The player should not be using that board for anything other than transcribing the moves, but they are used. I know, not exactly the same, but similar and I'm sure some people more familiar with online chess might get a bit of a visual boost from that 2D board representation.

I maybe should have posted an addendum, in the case of this topic due to some of the posts, that is just my opinion, based on my understanding of the rules, having read previous similar topics, and what is possible on the site (e.g. with the apps and things like DGT).

I think staff likely have differing ideas on it though but if done correctly (i.e. no analysis and playing the move they made on the board, regardless) isn't going to cause any problems.

Thanks for the explanation. I've heard something very similar before, but appreciate the clarification again. 

The rule says no assistance. A real board (or second board) is not assistance. I understand why you think it's not a good idea. But for an average player like me, who only plays for fun and doesnt really care about winning or losing the touch, feel, and overall experience of a real board with real pieces is more important than losing on time just because it took longer to relay the moves of the game. For me, chess is meant to be played in 3d, with real people. When that can't happen, playing in 3d with someone on the internet is the next best thing. 

I play golf the same way. What difference does it make if the ball ends up behind a tree. It does no good to kick the ball out and pretend it wasn't a stroke. It's more fun to play each shot, no matter how many it ends up taking. It's more real that way. 

The rule is written in one place only. Martin has countless years of experience and is extremely knowledgeable but as he clarified - he is not speaking for Staff in any official capacity. A general rule is made allowing their interpretations for individual cases. When I say CC does not “endorse nor prohibit the practice” this is meant. Would be quite foolish for Staff to post in a thread anything other than what is already in place. It would lend itself to misinterpretation with people drawing varied conclusions. There are absolutely no issues if a 2nd board is used in the fashion PG describes. A possible problem arises - an ethical one when playing rated. For experienced players not so much. But this thread is for beginners. I think it places quite the burden on new players to never take back a single move when the game is rated. Unrated games, training games all well and good. The practice will prove itself to be a burden and cause mistakes doing both boards. As players become familiar and comfortable with 2D I would suggest not using a 2nd board. It assists in visualization and a comfort level only, but that is overcome in short manner by most.

Best procedure would be after looking at the 2nd board and deciding on a move would be to enter it 1st  and then copy the move on the physical board. This requires a lot of back and forth. Attention going from one board to another and back again for a single move. To save time - players may resort to making the move 1st on the physical board and copy it to the 2D screen. A natural tendency. What can happen in between? Possibly after making the physical move and before entering the move it is seen to be a losing move. Players are ethically bound to make the move knowing it leads to losing the game. How many are so ethically bound? I tend not to think a great majority after witnessing all the bad sports we encounter.