How to exploit a bad opening

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taseredbirdinstinct

I have a question about bad openings. As far as I know, there are 3 known ways to punish your opponent when they are in a position that is considered to be a lost position, am I correct to assume that these 3 ways to exploit it are the only methods possible?

1: Piling up on a pinned piece.

2: Attacking the Kingside

3: Creating Dual Threats by threatening multiple pieces all at once while these pieces that you are threatening lack the sufficient amount of pieces to defend them against attack, A.K.A. a matter involving the number of attackers vs defenders.

intimon

There are a ton of different tactical schematics to build pressure on your opponent:

Forks, Pins, Skewers, double checks, overloaded pieces, and many more...

These are not specially bound to the opening and if you want to train these, check out chess puzzles. Don't worry about opening theory to much until you understand basic endgames, tactics, and checkmate patterns. happy.png

 

intimon

“Openings teach you openings. Endgames teach you chess!” (Stephan Gerzadowicz)

SacrificeTheHorse

You must first recognise if and why your opponent has made a 'bad opening'. Usually the way to gain and increase an advantage from the opening is to get ahead in development (get more pieces out than your opponent and on useful squares) and gain control over and/or occupy central squares. There may sometimes be specific tactics such as pins which force your opponent to react in a certain way and allow you to do something useful whilst they spend a move dealing with it.

taseredbirdinstinct
NervesofButter wrote:

No offense but youre rated 113 in Daily.  Stick with learning the basics first.

No offense, but you are the only one here who has failed to provide any legitimate advice.

challenge me to a game, you're in the exact same boat as me, don't get crabby with me.

taseredbirdinstinct
SacrificeTheHorse wrote:

You must first recognise if and why your opponent has made a 'bad opening'. Usually the way to gain and increase an advantage from the opening is to get ahead in development (get more pieces out than your opponent and on useful squares) and gain control over and/or occupy central squares. There may sometimes be specific tactics such as pins which force your opponent to react in a certain way and allow you to do something useful whilst they spend a move dealing with it.

In other words, the goal should be to see if there are any immediate tactics that can be employed to create threats and if there are no immediate threats you can make the next step should be to further develop your pieces until tactics arise.

XOsportyspiceXO

Depending on what skill level your playing at can change what you consider a bad opening, personally i think of overextending pawns or creating backwards pawns or hanging pawn structure. Positional weaknesses in the opening are not usually refutable right away but they are long term targets. Your post is a little confusing your asking about bad openings and then go on to explain some basic tactics...these tactics can be in the middle game/endgame also so what are we talking about the opponent playing 1.h4 ? Or some wayward queen caveman style mating ideas ?

busterlark
#8 it really depends on the situation. Because sometimes it is worth it to execute a tactic to win a pawn. But sometimes it’s more worth it to ignore the pawn and continue to develop — especially if you’re developing in such a way that makes it hard for your opponent to develop in the future.
busterlark
I think that’s why you’re not getting clean answers here. There isn’t just some clean way to punish every bad opening.

For example, 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e3 b5?! 4. a4 c6 5. axb5 cxb5 6. Qf3 is a way to exploit bad opening play that wins material.

But 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Bf5 3. cxd5 Qxd5?! 4. Nc3 Qa5 5. Bd2 is a way to exploit bad opening play that develops pieces with tempo.

No one-size-fits-all approach.
llama51

Let's start with the basics first. A typical beginner mistake is believing that a bad opening move should result in immediate punishment. Often this is not the case. A bad opening move by your opponent typically results in a superior middlegame for you. You'll have better control of the center, better development, and/or a safer king. Then you'll try to leverage your advantage in the middlegame to gain even more. The most common way to achieve a winning position is by converting your positional advantage into a material one (winning pieces).

After you've won pieces, the basic winning idea is limit your opponent's counterplay while trading down into an endgame where it will be easy to queen a pawn because you have more pieces.

---

So now the question is how do you leverage advantages like superior development, or better control of the center, or a better pawn structure (etc) to win material and eventually the game? The answer would (and has) filled multiple books. Such an answer doesn't fit in a forum post.

I guess I'll say that temporary advantages like development require immediate attacking ideas, otherwise your opponent will catch up. Long term advantages like pawn structure you may be able to wait (literally) all game long (exploiting them in the endgame). That's a small intro to what would eventually become a 1000 page book tongue.png

taseredbirdinstinct
busterlark wrote:
I think that’s why you’re not getting clean answers here. There isn’t just some clean way to punish every bad opening.

For example, 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e3 b5?! 4. a4 c6 5. axb5 cxb5 6. Qf3 is a way to exploit bad opening play that wins material.

But 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Bf5 3. cxd5 Qxd5?! 4. Nc3 Qa5 5. Bd2 is a way to exploit bad opening play that develops pieces with tempo.

No one-size-fits-all approach.

Is being ahead in tempo better than being a pawn up?

taseredbirdinstinct
llama51 wrote:

Let's start with the basics first. A typical beginner mistake is believing that a bad opening move should result in immediate punishment. Often this is not the case. A bad opening move typically results in a superior middlegame. You'll have better control of the center, better development, and/or a safer king. Then you'll try to leverage your advantage in the middlegame to gain even more. The most basic way to achieve a winning position is by converting your positional advantage into a material one (winning pieces).

After you've won pieces, the basic winning idea is limit your opponent's counterplay while trading down into an endgame where it will be easy to queen a pawn because you have more pieces.

---

So now the question is how do you leverage advantages like superior development, or better control of the center, or a better pawn structure (etc) to win material and eventually the game? The answer would (and has) filled multiple books. Such an answer doesn't fit in a forum post.

I guess I'll say that temporary advantages like development require immediate attacking ideas, otherwise your opponent will catch up. Long term advantages like pawn structure you may be able to wait (literally) all game long (exploiting them in the endgame). That's a small intro to what would eventually become a 1000 page book

Is the goal to continue causing your opponent to lose tempo and once you can no longer hold back their tempo, the goal is to then use tactics on the opponent?

ShouldBreezi
NervesofButter wrote:
taseredbirdinstinct wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:

No offense but youre rated 113 in Daily.  Stick with learning the basics first.

Shut up loser, or challenge me to a game, you're in the exact same boat as me, don't get crabby with me.

What a surprise.  New account....angry...and insulting. 

As much as i don't even like to play online anymore.  I will have to say no to your intriguing offer.  Simply because i don't enjoy playing engines.  So now feel free to answer with another snappy insult/comeback. 

Who hurt you? OP did nothing to deserve your insults, bad day today?

ShouldBreezi
taseredbirdinstinct wrote:

I have a question about bad openings. As far as I know, there are 3 known ways to punish your opponent when they are in a position that is considered to be a lost position, am I correct to assume that these 3 ways to exploit it are the only methods possible?

1: Piling up on a pinned piece.

2: Attacking the Kingside

3: Creating Dual Threats by threatening multiple pieces all at once while these pieces that you are threatening lack the sufficient amount of pieces to defend them against attack, A.K.A. a matter involving the number of attackers vs defenders.

There are probably other methods, I usually use number 3 for the Englund Gambit (Probably one of the worst openings people use commonly)

taseredbirdinstinct
NervesofButter wrote:
taseredbirdinstinct wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:

No offense but youre rated 113 in Daily.  Stick with learning the basics first.

Shut up loser, or challenge me to a game, you're in the exact same boat as me, don't get crabby with me.

What a surprise.  New account....angry...and insulting. 

As much as i don't even like to play online anymore.  I will have to say no to your intriguing offer.  Simply because i don't enjoy playing engines.  So now feel free to answer with another snappy insult/comeback. 

There is nothing insulting about my post, I literally told you in my post to put up and take things as they are without whining.

Shut up and quit the lame accusations of me using an engine, which is obviously false, if you think it's true, then get off your butt and report it to the cheat detection team.

llama51
taseredbirdinstinct wrote:
llama51 wrote:

Let's start with the basics first. A typical beginner mistake is believing that a bad opening move should result in immediate punishment. Often this is not the case. A bad opening move typically results in a superior middlegame. You'll have better control of the center, better development, and/or a safer king. Then you'll try to leverage your advantage in the middlegame to gain even more. The most basic way to achieve a winning position is by converting your positional advantage into a material one (winning pieces).

After you've won pieces, the basic winning idea is limit your opponent's counterplay while trading down into an endgame where it will be easy to queen a pawn because you have more pieces.

---

So now the question is how do you leverage advantages like superior development, or better control of the center, or a better pawn structure (etc) to win material and eventually the game? The answer would (and has) filled multiple books. Such an answer doesn't fit in a forum post.

I guess I'll say that temporary advantages like development require immediate attacking ideas, otherwise your opponent will catch up. Long term advantages like pawn structure you may be able to wait (literally) all game long (exploiting them in the endgame). That's a small intro to what would eventually become a 1000 page book

Is the goal to continue causing your opponent to lose tempo and once you can no longer hold back their tempo, the goal is to then use tactics on the opponent?

Tempo isn't a central idea like that.

With the caveat that reducing something complicated to something simple is never perfect... the most fundamental value in chess is mobility. From mobility you can derive all the other strategic ideas.

To start, put a piece in the middle of an empty board and count the number of squares it can move to. You'll notice better pieces have more mobility (the queen is worth the most). You can also note that when a king's mobility is reduced to zero (and if the king is attacked), then game is over (checkmate).

So now to take it one step further... mobility for its own sake doesn't win a game. Controlling all the squares around the enemy king is better than around the opponent's knight tongue.png

So now we're getting somewhere... when a piece is both mobile, and in contact with something important, that's what's usually called piece "activity."

The two strategic ways to be "active" are coming into contact with weak pawns or the king. Both of these are slow moving targets, and when weak, both tend to stay weak for a long time. That's why I put this sort of activity under the strategic label.

You can also be tactically active. This is by being in contact with anything loosely defended (king, pawns, or any piece).

---

So now to answer your question using this idea of mobility and activity.

The goal is to maintain (or increase) your overall activity while maintaining (or decreasing) the opponent's. One typical piece of advice is "when in doubt, find your worst placed piece and improve its position." A typical example is a knight on the edge of the board would rather be in the center. A bishop stuck behind its own pawns would rather be moved in front (or move the pawns out of the way). Rooks want to be on open files.

Then in the middlegame, you use this mobility to infiltrate into your opponents position or otherwise come into contact with weak pawns, king, or other pieces.

To do this successfully you have to learn a lot of different tactical and strategic patterns. You do this by studying and playing a lot of games. Also by playing a lot of games you'll make a lot of mistakes and learn from them.

This is about the best I can fit into a forum post: pieces become mobile, then become active, then eventually win material... the details would fill multiple books tongue.png

llama51

From here it'd be easier to comment on specific games. For example one of your games, or a grandmaster game. People could note how a certain move is trying to increase their advantage or mobility / activity.

taseredbirdinstinct
llama51 wrote:
taseredbirdinstinct wrote:
llama51 wrote:

Let's start with the basics first. A typical beginner mistake is believing that a bad opening move should result in immediate punishment. Often this is not the case. A bad opening move typically results in a superior middlegame. You'll have better control of the center, better development, and/or a safer king. Then you'll try to leverage your advantage in the middlegame to gain even more. The most basic way to achieve a winning position is by converting your positional advantage into a material one (winning pieces).

After you've won pieces, the basic winning idea is limit your opponent's counterplay while trading down into an endgame where it will be easy to queen a pawn because you have more pieces.

---

So now the question is how do you leverage advantages like superior development, or better control of the center, or a better pawn structure (etc) to win material and eventually the game? The answer would (and has) filled multiple books. Such an answer doesn't fit in a forum post.

I guess I'll say that temporary advantages like development require immediate attacking ideas, otherwise your opponent will catch up. Long term advantages like pawn structure you may be able to wait (literally) all game long (exploiting them in the endgame). That's a small intro to what would eventually become a 1000 page book

Is the goal to continue causing your opponent to lose tempo and once you can no longer hold back their tempo, the goal is to then use tactics on the opponent?

Tempo isn't a central idea like that.

With the caveat that reducing something complicated to something simple is never perfect... the most fundamental value in chess is mobility. From mobility you can derive all the other strategic ideas.

To start, put a piece in the middle of an empty board and count the number of squares it can move to. You'll notice better pieces have more mobility (the queen is worth the most). You can also note that when a king's mobility is reduced to zero (and if the king is attacked), then game is over (checkmate).

So now to take it one step further... mobility for its own sake doesn't win a game. Controlling all the squares around the enemy king is better than around the opponent's knight

So now we're getting somewhere... when a piece is both mobile, and in contact with something important, that's what's usually called piece "activity."

The two strategic ways to be "active" are coming into contact with weak pawns or the king. Both of these are slow moving targets, and when weak, both tend to stay weak for a long time. That's why I put this sort of activity under the strategic label.

You can also be tactically active. This is by being in contact with anything loosely defended (king, pawns, or any piece).

---

So now to answer your question using this idea of mobility and activity.

The goal is to maintain (or increase) your overall activity while maintaining (or decreasing) the opponent's. One typical piece of advice is "when in doubt, find your worst placed piece and improve its position." A typical example is a knight on the edge of the board would rather be in the center. A bishop stuck behind its own pawns would rather be moved in front (or move the pawns out of the way). Rooks want to be on open files.

Then in the middlegame, you use this mobility to infiltrate into your opponents position or otherwise come into contact with weak pawns, king, or other pieces.

To do this successfully you have to learn a lot of different tactical and strategic patterns. You do this by studying and playing a lot of games. Also by playing a lot of games you'll make a lot of mistakes and learn from them.

This is about the best I can fit into a forum post: pieces become mobile, then become active, then eventually win material... the details would fill multiple books

How do I increase the activity and mobility of my pieces? How do I maintain or decrease the activity and mobility of my opponents pieces?

llama51
taseredbirdinstinct wrote:

How do I increase the activity and mobility of my pieces? How do I maintain or decrease the activity and mobility of my opponents pieces?

That's the same as asking "how do I play chess well?"

You do it by playing a lot of games, analyzing a lot of games, and reading a lot of books.

llama51

Ok, so that's probably a bit overwhelming for a beginner... to tell them to read a library grin

Start with something like this:
https://www.chess.com/lessons

And then eventually get a book like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Chess-Strategy-Ludek-Pachman/dp/0486202909

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If you only read 1 or 2 books (let's say one on strategy and one on endgame), you'll be far ahead of most people.