Forums

Is trading queens worth it at all?

RAU4ever
MSteen wrote:

Basically, if you are ahead in material, trade queens. 

This is what people get taught when they are beginners. When you're a beginner, it's usually right to trade queens when you're ahead, because it gives the opponent less chances to win back material tactically. Also, if you're 2+ pawns up, other endgames usually are easier than queen endgames anyway. In essence, this is a good tip for OP. 

However, when you get stronger, this rule really shouldn't be followed all that much. It all should depend on the position. If you're 2 pawns up and the opponent has a completely exposed king, while our king is safe, why in the world would we trade queens there and give up our attacking potential? If we're 1 pawn up and completely control the position, should we trade our queen and relinquish that pressure just because we're 1 pawn up? That does not make sense, as we'd give up the chance to win more pawns and win more easily. And there are also positions where a rook endgame would be very hard to win, while the queen endgame can be won. 

Chess is a beautiful game. There are almost no questions that can be answered with an answer that's always 100% true. It almost always depends. That's why chess is difficult. That's why chess is still worth playing even though there are superstrong computers around.

A_Gud_Name

K thx

dikmasterson

Most certainly, especially if the opponent's queen is a pest.

It is also advantageous when your other pieces and pawn structure are in better positions than your opponent.

Remember: as more pieces are removed from the board, the relative value of each remaining piece is increased. You can see how important the king becomes offensively in late game.

 

MagnusMinus1500

To me it depends upon several factors.  Position, material, how adept one is with lesser pieces.  I generally do not early in a game, but if it wrecks my opponent's position and forces his king to  move and remove his plans to castle?  More likely, but even that depends upon other factors.

Onlysane1

The answer is a definite "it depends". As with any trade, what are you getting out of it?

Are you gaining material (e.g. capture a bishop with your queen, your opponent's queen captures your, and your own bishop captures your opponent's queen)?

Are you improving your position (e.g. your opponent captures your queen with his own, then you capture the queen with a pawn that opens up a file for your rook)?

Are you damaging your opponent's position (e.g. you capture your opponent's queen and your opponent has to capture back with a pawn, ruining the defenses around his castled king)?

Every trade (including queens) results in a change in the board beyond those two pieces not being there any more

llama47
RAU4ever wrote:
MSteen wrote:

Basically, if you are ahead in material, trade queens. 

This is what people get taught when they are beginners. When you're a beginner, it's usually right to trade queens when you're ahead, because it gives the opponent less chances to win back material tactically. Also, if you're 2+ pawns up, other endgames usually are easier than queen endgames anyway. In essence, this is a good tip for OP. 

However, when you get stronger, this rule really shouldn't be followed all that much. It all should depend on the position. If you're 2 pawns up and the opponent has a completely exposed king, while our king is safe, why in the world would we trade queens there and give up our attacking potential? If we're 1 pawn up and completely control the position, should we trade our queen and relinquish that pressure just because we're 1 pawn up? That does not make sense, as we'd give up the chance to win more pawns and win more easily. And there are also positions where a rook endgame would be very hard to win, while the queen endgame can be won. 

Chess is a beautiful game. There are almost no questions that can be answered with an answer that's always 100% true. It almost always depends. That's why chess is difficult. That's why chess is still worth playing even though there are superstrong computers around.

That might be a little confusing to new players though... a master understands that, everything else being equal, a single pawn advantage is often not enough to win in many different endgames. Even two pawns may not be reliably winning if there are other elements balancing against it.

So let's say that everything else is equal except you're ahead two pawns and a piece. Would you trade queens then? Of course. So I don't think it's a bad rule to tell people.

But more to the point I think it's as I said early on. The queen represents dynamic factors like king safety and initiative, so you trade queens if your advantages are static like material and pawn structure.

Tad2721
llama47 wrote:
RAU4ever wrote:
MSteen wrote:

Basically, if you are ahead in material, trade queens. 

This is what people get taught when they are beginners. When you're a beginner, it's usually right to trade queens when you're ahead, because it gives the opponent less chances to win back material tactically. Also, if you're 2+ pawns up, other endgames usually are easier than queen endgames anyway. In essence, this is a good tip for OP. 

However, when you get stronger, this rule really shouldn't be followed all that much. It all should depend on the position. If you're 2 pawns up and the opponent has a completely exposed king, while our king is safe, why in the world would we trade queens there and give up our attacking potential? If we're 1 pawn up and completely control the position, should we trade our queen and relinquish that pressure just because we're 1 pawn up? That does not make sense, as we'd give up the chance to win more pawns and win more easily. And there are also positions where a rook endgame would be very hard to win, while the queen endgame can be won. 

Chess is a beautiful game. There are almost no questions that can be answered with an answer that's always 100% true. It almost always depends. That's why chess is difficult. That's why chess is still worth playing even though there are superstrong computers around.

That might be a little confusing to new players though... a master understands that, everything else being equal, a single pawn advantage is often not enough to win in many different endgames. Even two pawns may not be reliably winning if there are other elements balancing against it.

So let's say that everything else is equal except you're ahead two pawns and a piece. Would you trade queens then? Of course. So I don't think it's a bad rule to tell people.

But more to the point I think it's as I said early on. The queen represents dynamic factors like king safety and initiative, so you trade queens if your advantages are static like material and pawn structure.

That is SIMPLE to understand

RAU4ever
llama47 wrote:
RAU4ever wrote:
MSteen wrote:

Basically, if you are ahead in material, trade queens. 

This is what people get taught when they are beginners. When you're a beginner, it's usually right to trade queens when you're ahead, because it gives the opponent less chances to win back material tactically. Also, if you're 2+ pawns up, other endgames usually are easier than queen endgames anyway. In essence, this is a good tip for OP. 

However, when you get stronger, this rule really shouldn't be followed all that much. It all should depend on the position. If you're 2 pawns up and the opponent has a completely exposed king, while our king is safe, why in the world would we trade queens there and give up our attacking potential? If we're 1 pawn up and completely control the position, should we trade our queen and relinquish that pressure just because we're 1 pawn up? That does not make sense, as we'd give up the chance to win more pawns and win more easily. And there are also positions where a rook endgame would be very hard to win, while the queen endgame can be won. 

Chess is a beautiful game. There are almost no questions that can be answered with an answer that's always 100% true. It almost always depends. That's why chess is difficult. That's why chess is still worth playing even though there are superstrong computers around.

That might be a little confusing to new players though... a master understands that, everything else being equal, a single pawn advantage is often not enough to win in many different endgames. Even two pawns may not be reliably winning if there are other elements balancing against it.

So let's say that everything else is equal except you're ahead two pawns and a piece. Would you trade queens then? Of course. So I don't think it's a bad rule to tell people.

But more to the point I think it's as I said early on. The queen represents dynamic factors like king safety and initiative, so you trade queens if your advantages are static like material and pawn structure.

So you're a piece up, the opponent's king is completely open and you are looking to trade queens? I should think not. My point stands. 

I think we don't disagree on the fact that it's good for a beginner to know that it's right to trade queens when he's ahead significant material. I believe I explicitly said that.

llama47

In general, no, I wouldn't trade in that case.

Also because (and I think beginners don't know this) you don't trade by "asking" for a trade (attacking their queen with your queen over and over) you seek a trade by being really active with that piece.

So if my queen is really active and their king is totally open, then no, I'm probably not trading grin.png

(but if my queen is stuck in a corner or something dumb, and I can literally force a queen trade, then sure, I'd probably just go into the winning endgame)

So like you said, chess isn't easy and it just depends.

DerekDHarvey

Yes, trade off Queens at every opportunity for a year or so and improve your piece play. You will find that Queens are precious to some people and they will even use a tempo to avoid exchanges

laurengoodkindchess

Hi! My name is Lauren Goodkind and I’m a chess coach and chess YouTuber based in California: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP5SPSG_sWSYPjqJYMNwL_Q

 

Trading queens depends on the position.  Sometimes trading queens is good and sometimes trading queens is horrible.  

I hope that this helps! 

A_Gud_Name

Thanks for the feedback everybody!

king5minblitz119147

sorry for the intermission. just testing if i can see my post.