Forums

learning from your mistakes evaluating games?

Sort:
dokerbohm

so everyone here from 500 to 2000 players  saids the way to get better is the review your games -- hummmmmmmm-- watching one self make the same mistake over again  - i don't get it how ?

i know i made a mistake the moment i made it -  so to review it makes no sense to me - if i could change the move after i made the mistake and continue on from their i get that --but that can only be played by playing a bot game-- which i do like occasionally trying to make it past the move i made the last time i lost -- but just reviewing the game with a program telling you which move was better than the one you made-- its like second guessing one self that space and time will never be replayed again so why go over it ---- i know i am missing something here   because so many better players do it---- well really all better players do it - so please if you could give some insight into the why of replaying your loss is good for you to do i would appreciate it   

whiteknight1968

I generally only make one mistake - playing too quickly. 

This is turn leads to a fantastic array of different blunders, hundreds of them. I don't think that analyzing games would help much, I can pretty much always see where I went wrong (and might have avoided it had I thought a while longer).

30packJack
Just because you know you made a mistake doesn’t mean that you know what the best move would have been. That’s why you should analyze so you can see what the engine recommends and why.
magipi

Dokerbohm: in your case, first decide what you want. Do you want to lose all your games and get to 100, or do you want to get better?

Please analyze and explain this game:

 

dokerbohm

well that game i don't even remembering playing - but the looking at the rating means i was on a downward slump and was depressed about playing so after second move gave up on that one -- i quit after that for the night as my meds where kicking in -- pleasetry another game wheni was around 130 and up 

krakxn

Play a longer time control (e.g. 15 | 10 or 30 minutes).

Take as much time as possible to think each move through. Do not worry about winning or losing your games for now. Think as much as possible and play each move accordingly. It is okay to lose games on time at this point, but learn from the mistakes made. For instance, in your latest Rapid game, you hung a Queen with 9 minutes on the clock: use your time and do not worry about the outcome of the game; your goal should be to improve, not gain rating.

dokerbohm

krakxn -- good points made -- longer games are not a option for me -- but i will reevaluate that playing not to win or lose just make moves better --- yes very good point -- please try to look at one on my better games that last a little  longer  but again thanks for input 

busterlark

The point of going over a game is not just to see the mistake you made, but to look at the position right before you made your mistake, and then to think, "hmm, why did I make a mistake in this position, and how can I stop myself from making this mistake in the future?"

dokerbohm

why i made a mistake in every game at every time is the same -- i just don't see it coming  fast game or slow --when i have a preset thought move ready to go - that's going to do something in the next move or so to my opponent -- then they always use a diagonal or knight pitch move and throw off my whole plan then i spend  the rest of the game just  in defensive moves wondering into what ever trap they have set for me -- guess that's the whole point seeing the whole board -- either you have it or you don't -- maybe its not a learned thing -- but seeing myself doing the same over and over again and being powerless to stop it - or at least thats what i think 

DejarikDreams

If you know what your mistake is, then you can make a plan to fix it. If it’s not seeing the whole board, then take more time scanning the entire board. You might not catch everything right away, but with time it shouldn’t be a problem. I’ve missed a few easy puzzles because I didn’t scan the whole board, so now I’m doing what I suggested.

nklristic

For most people, it is pretty difficult to improve too much by just playing shorter games. There are some exceptions, of course.

If that is the case, and longer games are not an options, then perhaps you might consider playing just for the fun of it. If you improve, great, if not, you shouldn't lose any sleep over it.

ibracadabra

Its easy to know a mistake when its already done, so saying that "i knew i made a mistake in the moment i made it" and therefore it would be pointless to review the game makes no sense to me. The whole point of reviewing the game is to go back and see "in this position, i thought like this - why did i think this was the best move?" and before looking in to the best move told by the engien, try to figure out a better move than the mistake one made in the first place and THEN look what the cpu would do, and understand why. And next time try to spot theese situations and not make the same mistake again. Because If you truly know why u made a mistake, and truly realize what u should have done instead, then u would not keep on doing the same mistakes over and over again.

samxyx

I'm late to the party, but there is one point I wanted to add to the discussion which I don't believe was said.

And that is that I partially agree with you. Reviewing games is not going to be as beneficial for people of different skill levels. When reviewing games you have to have a general understanding of the principles governing good chess. If you don't have that framework then reviweing games is going to be tedious and confusing.

As an example say someone is just starting to play chess and blundered a queen. Sure reviewing the game is going to help make them understand why they blundered it and to not do it again, but it's going to do little else besides that. This is because the computer doesn't say why the "best" moves it recommends are the best moves. And for someone to try and work out what the computer is thinking without ever being taught what to look for, it's going to be almost an impossible task. The best thing a beginner can do is to get some type of formal training which teaches them the basic principles and then to gradually look for those when reviewing your own games over time.

On the other end of the spectrum a grandmaster is going to greatly benefit from reviweing their games because they are thinking of complex strategies. The different options the computer recommends are specific things they could incorporate into future battles.

I'm no chess god by any means, but when I was first starting out I did all the beginner and intermediate lessons on chess.com and I do believe they provide a good foundation for a player. Doing the lessons and trying to understand the why behind certain moves will make you a better player 1000x faster than just playing and reviweing all your games on your own. Infact I think that's a recipe for stagnation.

magipi
samxyx wrote:

As an example say someone is just starting to play chess and blundered a queen. Sure reviewing the game is going to help make them understand why they blundered it and to not do it again, but it's going to do little else besides that. This is because the computer doesn't say why the "best" moves it recommends are the best moves. And for someone to try and work out what the computer is thinking without ever being taught what to look for, it's going to be almost an impossible task.

I fail to follow your logic here. So the reason of the game loss is blundering a queen, and "reviewing the game is going to help make them understand why they blundered it and to not do it again". But then as an inexplicable trip in your logic, by the next sentence it becomes "almost an impossible task". I am baffled.

samxyx
magipi wrote:
samxyx wrote:

As an example say someone is just starting to play chess and blundered a queen. Sure reviewing the game is going to help make them understand why they blundered it and to not do it again, but it's going to do little else besides that. This is because the computer doesn't say why the "best" moves it recommends are the best moves. And for someone to try and work out what the computer is thinking without ever being taught what to look for, it's going to be almost an impossible task.

I fail to follow your logic here. So the reason of the game loss is blundering a queen, and "reviewing the game is going to help make them understand why they blundered it and to not do it again". But then as an inexplicable trip in your logic, by the next sentence it becomes "almost an impossible task". I am baffled.

I'm saying that if you hung a queen then yes it's very easy to identify that. Most low level chess is just trying to not to blunder your pieces. I'm then trying to say that if you want to use the review feature beyond that, to evaluate your overall strategy, that aspect will be harder for say a 100 rated player. Everybody benefits from review, but if you are not aware of tactics, strategy, and, positional ideas then you aren't going to get as much out of it as someone who is aware of those things. Sometimes it's better to learn those things first before reviewing your own games with great detail.

magipi

When a player is at a level of constantly blundering pieces, identifying that is great. Meanwhile, "evaluating the overall strategy" is not very useful.

If a player realizes that losing pieces costs him game after game, that is incredibly important. In my opinion, the vast majority of low level players don't know that. Half of them think that they lose because of the opening they play is bad. The other half thinks that they lose because their opponents are cheating.

moshedayanidf

I appreciate your wisdom, @magipi. 🧠

Deaconsz

Mistakes are made by everyone . The aim of reviewing them should be to find out where you went wrong and what led you to make that mistake and to gain awareness towards the position by learning new ways in which the opponent can advance to attack you, how you can efficiently utilise the opportunities and do the same . The point of this is to improve yourself so that in future games , you don't make the same mistakes again but play better than you did and avoid falling into the same traps again .

KevinOSh

Magi is a strong player and knows what he is talking about. The game he found is the perfect place to start. What is the best way to prevent scholars mate? Do not skip over a lost game because it is painful or inconvenient. Get into the habit of obligating yourself to review those games. The goal is to understand not just to see something the computer says before quickly moving on to the next game.

MarkoVegano
krakxn. Thank for the advice. I don’t play enough because I think I will probably lose enough games that I end with a negative rating. I want to get better but I lose a game and confidence in myself.