My Lord... it's impossible.

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Avatar of Marcyful
pfren wrote:
Marcyful wrote:

 I'm pretty sure even a 2000 cannot find a way through this "winning" endgame.

 

Actually this is part of the endgame lesson #4 or maybe #5 for beginners.

Well I guess I need to be sent to the endgame boot camp pronto. 

Avatar of Illbtu

Now I want to give you a piece of advice.

You played a very good game. & so did your opponent. 

During a game there are lots of factors involved, one that is really overlooked is your energy level. Sometimes you are tired or you are not as lucid as you can be. Sometimes 1 makes a silly mistake, sometimes 1 do a finger slip and the list goes on & on & on...

These are the human factors. We are not machines that can preform the same as long as we have an electric-cord stuck in our... back! nervous.png

Play your games in an enjoyable fashion. Just remember do not finger-slip. That is really painful. The rest is forgettable in the end. Good luck with your next game! wink.png  

Avatar of porkqupine

Well this was painful to behold.

Avatar of PineappleBird
Jai4chess wrote:
pfren wrote:
Marcyful wrote:

 I'm pretty sure even a 2000 cannot find a way through this "winning" endgame.

 

Actually this is part of the endgame lesson #4 or maybe #5 for beginners.

It is the very first examnple at the Queen Endings chapter of Keres' "Practical Chess Endings", and white's method is very far away from being rocket science..

I agree, I am less than 1200 rapid and this endgame is a piece of cake for me... Even if I have around 2 min left on my clock I should be able to win or at least draw this.

This isn't about knowing to win with 2 minutes on the clock... It's about knowing to win this with 10 seconds on your clock.

 

As I suspected they were playing Rapid with no incriment. There's often trouble in 15+0 or 20+0... White had 1 minute vs Black's 3... Black was applying time pressure. 

Do yourself a favor and train a few of these endgame vs Stockfish 1 min with no incriment... You will want to break the computer at some point, but you will never lose Q v pawns again (unless the pawns are all advanced and seperated or whatever, that's a different story)

Avatar of PineappleBird
Jai4chess wrote:

Nope, at my level in bullet, both players play random moves and the game ends up something like this:

 

So no way I'll be able to win this with 10 seconds left (unless it is by timeout)

It's not about bullet, it's about needing 10 seconds to win... That means if you have 1 minute and opponent has 3, if you KNOW what you are doing, by the time you take his pawn you have 50 seconds and he has 1 minute and a half and he resigns... 

 

enjoy! click "continue vs computer, select 1 minute no inc.

Avatar of porkqupine

Practicing these things against an engine is deceptive. The engine knows the position is lost, it might just abandon the pawn altogether (I just tried and it did). The human wouldn't do that.

Anyway, the method is basic, and honestly even a 1000-rated player should win this in their sleep.

Avatar of daxypoo
tough loss but it does reveal a very specific and “fixable” technique that op can build on for future

Avatar of PineappleBird
porkqupine wrote:

Practicing these things against an engine is deceptive. The engine knows the position is lost, it might just abandon the pawn altogether (I just tried and it did). The human wouldn't do that.

Anyway, the method is basic, and honestly even a 1000-rated player should win this in their sleep.

you can choose at least 2 different checking lines to approach the pawn...  idk... for me it was a good way to practice and internalize the patterns... again, I didn't try to work on the cleanest win but the one that is the most forcing, and requires the least amount of thought, while still using the checking/king approach technique you learn from books etc...

 

try to go for under 10 seconds, 1 min is simply the shortest it allows to challenge...

this is 28 moves from the critical position in the game... again not at all clean but if you go for this time goal you fail enough times to practice alot of possible patterns.

 

And as for a human plays better than an engine... well... simply - no... Because the human who dosen't know it's lost will not be able to deal with your perfected technique... in order to even do a decent job at defending they need to know to actually leave the pawn in order to have a tempo to get back at it once you threaten to take it... If they just stick with the pawn you mate them without even needing to take the pawn at all 

Avatar of korotky_trinity
AunTheKnight wrote:

Oh, dear. That is so painful! When I have the advantage, I am always scared I will blunder it away, and then I do… Must get rid of emotion…!

I don't know what happent to me... 

It was like something paralyzed my brains.

Avatar of korotky_trinity
ShrekChess69420 wrote:

72. Qa3?? Not quite how you're supposed to win queen vs. pawn. Instead,

72. Qc3+ Kb1 Force the king to hide in front of the pawn, then bring your king closer. 

73. Kf2 Ka2 74. Qc4+ Keep giving checks to get your queen in a good position. 

Ka3 75. Qc2 Ka2 76. Qa4+ Kb1 Now the king has to hide in front of the pawn, so bring your king closer. 

77. Ke2 M3 1-0

Yes , I know.

I should win in this position.

But something happent to me suddenly... I forgot how I must play.

I was not myself at that moment. )

Avatar of korotky_trinity
Marcyful wrote:

I took a closer look at the game through the analysis and apparently... the engine expects you to win this by giving loads of seemingly aimless checks, making sure not to draw by threefold repetition, AND bringing the king closer to the king and pawn at the exact moment to deliver checkmate in 10 or even more moves ahead. There is nothing to be ashamed of @korotky_trinity. I'm pretty sure even a 2000 cannot find a way through this "winning" endgame.

Oh man... no.  It's a shame.

It was not so difficult to make check  after check... and to drag my King for helping his Queen.

I won many times before in this position.

In fact I could even drag white King to pawns in the other corner of the board.. and promote my pawn in second Queen. )

I could do anything.

You shouldn't be 2000+ in order to win in this simple situation.

Avatar of PineappleBird
korotky_trinity wrote:
Marcyful wrote:

I took a closer look at the game through the analysis and apparently... the engine expects you to win this by giving loads of seemingly aimless checks, making sure not to draw by threefold repetition, AND bringing the king closer to the king and pawn at the exact moment to deliver checkmate in 10 or even more moves ahead. There is nothing to be ashamed of @korotky_trinity. I'm pretty sure even a 2000 cannot find a way through this "winning" endgame.

Oh man... no.  It's a shame.

It was not so difficult to make check  after check... and to drag my King for helping his Queen.

I won many times before in this position.

In fact I could even drag white King to pawns in the other cor  ner of the board.. and promote my pawn in second Queen. )

I could do anything.

Don't focus on how bad it feels or on exact way you could have won... 62. Qg6 then Qc2 then Qa4+... who cares? It's analysis. Also writing comments about this "should have could have" it's a waste of time.

What is interesting is WHY you blunder this victory, and the answer is but one : Time pressure. 

It's not enough to know an endgame, it's helpful to know to do it fast and to understand your opponents way to defend this lost position. Practice!

Read my comments and do this exercise so next time you can win this position in under 30 seconds, in the process you will internalize many different patterns, try to do it in more way than one.

It's a privilege to learn 

Avatar of korotky_trinity
HeroinSheep wrote:

Were you in time trouble?

I  did an exercise for myself: 

 

I have a Queen, stockfish at maximum level has some pawns, challenge stockfish to a BULLET (!) match, with 1 minute... It's annoyingly hard sometimes, depending on which pawns he has and how advanced they are.

 

Does anyone know if it's possible to challenge Stockfish to a match with a clock on chess.com?

On lichess it is possible...

 

Work on it this way is very good. I never have issues in these won positions anymore

Yes , I was a little under time pressure.

But I had two or three minutes on the clock... so I had not  excuses.

Avatar of PineappleBird
korotky_trinity wrote:
HeroinSheep wrote:

Were you in time trouble?

I  did an exercise for myself: 

 

I have a Queen, stockfish at maximum level has some pawns, challenge stockfish to a BULLET (!) match, with 1 minute... It's annoyingly hard sometimes, depending on which pawns he has and how advanced they are.

 

Does anyone know if it's possible to challenge Stockfish to a match with a clock on chess.com?

On lichess it is possible...

 

Work on it this way is very good. I never have issues in these won positions anymore

Yes , I was a little under time pressure.

But I had two or three minutes on the clock... so I had not  excuses.

 

No, from what I see in your game you had 1 and a half minutes and opponent has 3.

Even 3 whole minutes is very low time to actually calculate a technical endgame you didn't practice and know by heart... Because like I said, time pressure can be applied even by the fact you are thinking for 20 seconds and the opponent replies in 0.5 seconds. That makes you feel pressure, regardless of the actual clock situation. If you practice this technique it won't matter how they try to pressurize you, and they will know by your speed reply and accuracy that they should resign. 

Avatar of Illbtu
korotky_trinity wrote:

I won many times before in this position...

...In fact I could...

I could do anything.

& so you have also won this 1, according to the miracle of modern physics' theories! Ain't that sweet? meh.png

You see, as dictated by the laws of the universe (or multiverse should I say) & quantum mechanics, you have won this game in an alternate reality. Of course winning is 1 thing, getting the chess-notations to the winning-version is a bit difficult to come by! 

However if you acquire knowledge of those 1s, I would be very glad to analyze them with my body, SF! So plz keep me up-2-dated! nervous.png 

Avatar of PineappleBird
TacticalPrecision wrote:
korotky_trinity wrote:

It is impossible.

How could I lose this game !

Computer's analysis said that I had 59+ points of advantage in the end of the game.

Really that kind of losses could cause the psychological trauma.

 

The fact that your opponent didn't resign is what keeps most people away from this game. How ridiculous. WHY do people play these unrated games on here as if their lives depend upon it? WHY is this so important to them? Nobody understands it...

I believe this feeling is more in your head than in reality. I personally am very bad at defending lost positions, but some people really enjoy it, it's their thing. Instead of resigning they give you a conversion test... They may not be playing as if their lives depended on it but they are simply practicing the technique of "holding on and trying to flag", with a smile on their face and they can't care less if you successfully convert... To you it feels like they are very intense about it... I like this aspect, that some people do not resign and I wish I could be the same... Maybe for some people it's a way to deal with their blunder, to force themselves to try to save the game...  to "un-tilt" so they say... And like shown here - they win some games this way.

Avatar of korotky_trinity
Numquam wrote:
Marcyful schreef:

I took a closer look at the game through the analysis and apparently... the engine expects you to win this by giving loads of seemingly aimless checks, making sure not to draw by threefold repetition, AND bringing the king closer to the king and pawn at the exact moment to deliver checkmate in 10 or even more moves ahead. There is nothing to be ashamed of @korotky_trinity. I'm pretty sure even a 2000 cannot find a way through this "winning" endgame.

I think most 2000+ players would win this. You don't have to see some mate in 10+. The idea is very simple and not that uncommon. You make the king block the pawn, so that you got a move to bring the king closer. This reminds me that in a similar endgame where the pawn is on the c-file and there are no other pawns on the board it is actually a draw.

 
 

 

 

Very good.

But in my case Black had another pawn on the board... so victory was in my hands...  I just blundered it away as my friend said.

Avatar of PineappleBird
TacticalPrecision wrote:

The thing is that you don't see a level of stubborn behavior like this really anywhere else in the world. What makes these chess players try so hard and care about winning in online unrated games will just never make any sense to me and quite frankly: It turns people off to the game. Look how many people came and tried it out during COVID and bounced soon thereafter. No normal, reasonable person is willing to sit there however long it takes to stave off a loss. 

 

I sortof agree with you in many ways but the reason I do is because I also tend to resign because of my playing style, I'm tactical and if I lose it's normally because I go all in with the attack leaving me no chance.... It is a strange characteristic of some chess players this tenacity to fight and actually give incredible resistance in completely lost positions... But I just admire it, I don't see it as being something that puts people off... It's just another thing that adds drama to the game. 

 

Also when you are completely lost often you have 1 move to survive, so they premove this move with lack of interest... to YOU that may seem like they are fighting for their life... to them it's like "damn this stupid game I don't care"... then their at some point their like... "wow this guy is flagging lol"... and at THAT point they become maybe a bit serious about it... But it's just part of what makes the game good. nothing is granted to you

Avatar of korotky_trinity
Illbtu wrote:

Now I want to give you a piece of advice.

You played a very good game. & so did your opponent. 

During a game there are lots of factors involved, one that is really overlooked is your energy level. Sometimes you are tired or you are not as lucid as you can be. Sometimes 1 makes a silly mistake, sometimes 1 do a finger slip and the list goes on & on & on...

These are the human factors. We are not machines that can preform the same as long as we have an electric-cord stuck in our... back!

Play your games in an enjoyable fashion. Just remember do not finger-slip. That is really painful. The rest is forgettable in the end. Good luck with your next game!  

Thank you, man !

But I imagine how my opponent laughed loud after game on me... lol

How triumphally he laughed. )

 

Avatar of korotky_trinity
porkqupine wrote:

Well this was painful to behold.

Yes.  ) It was a shock.

For a moment I was at loss for words.

I was sitting speechless.

Chess is a great game, really. )