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kippuss
BigFoxy90 wrote:
Habanababananero wrote:
BigFoxy90 kirjoitti:
Greaseflake wrote:

As far as fried liver attacks go, my experience says that they don't work for players with a rating above 500 on here.

@Greaseflake

Buddy, the fried liver works up to 1200 in my experience. I went for a fried liver last night against someone and he played the correct move after exd5 which is Na5. But I knew more about the continuation and was able to use that to my advantage because I played it A LOT at your level. It's great for your level. Just remember if they play Na5 after exd5 check on b5 with the bishop, trade the pawns when he goes c6 and then move the bishop back to d3 and play from there.

It's worth it and is a good attack at your level. Good luck, friend. Best vibes. 🙏

It is Fried Liver only after 5… Nxd5 and and 6. Nxf7. 6. d4 would make it the Lolli Attack.

You are talking about the main line of the Two Kinghts Defense Knight Attack, which is not the same thing at all.

@Habanababananero

That's not what i'm talking about at all. i'm posting a pgn of what i'm talking about. Maybe I don't visualize things well in my head while trying to type them out, but here you go.

I was SAYING after 4. Ng5 - d5 then 5. exd5 Na5 with Na5 being the main point i'm trying to make. A lot of people will make the mistake of taking with 5. exd5 - Nxd5 and then obviously the fried liver unfolds after that. I was talking about the continuation into the polerio, bishop check line. 
I wasn't saying that 4. 5. exd5 - Na5 was the fried liver, it's actually called the polerio defense and I was saying simply it's the best way ( in my experience ) to refute the fried liver. I don't even know of the lolli attack. lmao So at least that gives me something to look at and learn about tonight.

You did say the fried liver works until 1200 and the example you gave was of an opponent who did not allow the fried liver. You played better after move 6 but at move 6 black has managed to equalize. It's also only 6 moves of theory and a very, very common strategy so I would expect a lot of players to be able to play those first 6 moves correct and equalise. You outplayed your opponent after the opening but gained no advantage from the opening.

There are better strategies than going for a fried liver. But to be fair it is low risk high reward attack, so if you find enough success with it then good for you. I do wonder how succesful it is and at what level it starts failing and working against you more often than it works for you. For the wayward queen I think it is as early as 900-1000 that it starts working against you, probably. Even if lower rated players than that can defend against the scholar's mate attempt they might not be able to play in such a way as to punish it and so the game becomes equal and the attempt is essentially risk-free.

BigFoxy90
kippuss wrote:
BigFoxy90 wrote:
Habanababananero wrote:
BigFoxy90 kirjoitti:
Greaseflake wrote:

As far as fried liver attacks go, my experience says that they don't work for players with a rating above 500 on here.

@Greaseflake

Buddy, the fried liver works up to 1200 in my experience. I went for a fried liver last night against someone and he played the correct move after exd5 which is Na5. But I knew more about the continuation and was able to use that to my advantage because I played it A LOT at your level. It's great for your level. Just remember if they play Na5 after exd5 check on b5 with the bishop, trade the pawns when he goes c6 and then move the bishop back to d3 and play from there.

It's worth it and is a good attack at your level. Good luck, friend. Best vibes. 🙏

It is Fried Liver only after 5… Nxd5 and and 6. Nxf7. 6. d4 would make it the Lolli Attack.

You are talking about the main line of the Two Kinghts Defense Knight Attack, which is not the same thing at all.

@Habanababananero

That's not what i'm talking about at all. i'm posting a pgn of what i'm talking about. Maybe I don't visualize things well in my head while trying to type them out, but here you go.

I was SAYING after 4. Ng5 - d5 then 5. exd5 Na5 with Na5 being the main point i'm trying to make. A lot of people will make the mistake of taking with 5. exd5 - Nxd5 and then obviously the fried liver unfolds after that. I was talking about the continuation into the polerio, bishop check line. 
I wasn't saying that 4. 5. exd5 - Na5 was the fried liver, it's actually called the polerio defense and I was saying simply it's the best way ( in my experience ) to refute the fried liver. I don't even know of the lolli attack. lmao So at least that gives me something to look at and learn about tonight.

You did say the fried liver works until 1200 and the example you gave was of an opponent who did not allow the fried liver. You played better after move 6 but at move 6 black has managed to equalize. It's also only 6 moves of theory and a very, very common strategy so I would expect a lot of players to be able to play those first 6 moves correct and equalise. You outplayed your opponent after the opening but gained no advantage from the opening.

There are better strategies than going for a fried liver. But to be fair it is low risk high reward attack, so if you find enough success with it then good for you. I do wonder how succesful it is and at what level it starts failing and working against you more often than it works for you. For the wayward queen I think it is as early as 900-1000 that it starts working against you, probably. Even if lower rated players than that can defend against the scholar's mate attempt they might not be able to play in such a way as to punish it and so the game becomes equal and the attempt is essentially risk-free.

@Kippus

To be fair, I did say that it worked well in MY experience. After 1200 it works maybe half the time but you definitely need to know more of the theory and some of blacks counter threats like the traxler counter attack. I got beat with that a couple months back after attempting a fried liver attack and i'll say, that was definitely one to learn from. But you'd be suprised how often a move is misplayed in that attack. For some reason, some people have gotten to the higher levels without really knowing too much about it. When I first learned it I figured it was something everyone above say 1000 would know how to defend against. But I still run into a good amount of people who just misplay against it a few moves in. So I think it's a reasonable thing for beginners to learn and utilize until it does become ultimately ineffective once a higher rating level has been achieved. Either way I had good experiences with it and it made for some fun games.

Also the example I gave was just the first 6 moves, you're right but i didn't intend post the entire lines of theory pertaining to this particular opening. At my level people don't stay with theory for too long, book usually goes out the window before move 10. xD

NineMovesAheadHenry

Chess hard

maafernan

Hi!

Have you tried with the help of a teacher or coach? This will require a little investment that pays back with best use of your time- and hopefully with better results! I wrote on the subject, you could check out my post if interested:

https://www.chess.com/blog/maafernan/chess-skills-development

Good luck!

arosbishop

Yes play only 2 or 3 games a day and use all your reflection time. For the rest of your time go through your games and a good book with a physical board.

Every time it is your move ask these questions

Why did he do that move?

Are there any threats against my pieces?

Have I completed my development? If not do it.

Make small two moves plans like exchanging Queens Exchange a knight for a bishop...

And finally while you are improving always keep your pieces and pawns protester.

kippuss
BigFoxy90 wrote:
kippuss wrote:
BigFoxy90 wrote:
Habanababananero wrote:
BigFoxy90 kirjoitti:
Greaseflake wrote:

As far as fried liver attacks go, my experience says that they don't work for players with a rating above 500 on here.

@Greaseflake

Buddy, the fried liver works up to 1200 in my experience. I went for a fried liver last night against someone and he played the correct move after exd5 which is Na5. But I knew more about the continuation and was able to use that to my advantage because I played it A LOT at your level. It's great for your level. Just remember if they play Na5 after exd5 check on b5 with the bishop, trade the pawns when he goes c6 and then move the bishop back to d3 and play from there.

It's worth it and is a good attack at your level. Good luck, friend. Best vibes. 🙏

It is Fried Liver only after 5… Nxd5 and and 6. Nxf7. 6. d4 would make it the Lolli Attack.

You are talking about the main line of the Two Kinghts Defense Knight Attack, which is not the same thing at all.

@Habanababananero

That's not what i'm talking about at all. i'm posting a pgn of what i'm talking about. Maybe I don't visualize things well in my head while trying to type them out, but here you go.

I was SAYING after 4. Ng5 - d5 then 5. exd5 Na5 with Na5 being the main point i'm trying to make. A lot of people will make the mistake of taking with 5. exd5 - Nxd5 and then obviously the fried liver unfolds after that. I was talking about the continuation into the polerio, bishop check line. 
I wasn't saying that 4. 5. exd5 - Na5 was the fried liver, it's actually called the polerio defense and I was saying simply it's the best way ( in my experience ) to refute the fried liver. I don't even know of the lolli attack. lmao So at least that gives me something to look at and learn about tonight.

You did say the fried liver works until 1200 and the example you gave was of an opponent who did not allow the fried liver. You played better after move 6 but at move 6 black has managed to equalize. It's also only 6 moves of theory and a very, very common strategy so I would expect a lot of players to be able to play those first 6 moves correct and equalise. You outplayed your opponent after the opening but gained no advantage from the opening.

There are better strategies than going for a fried liver. But to be fair it is low risk high reward attack, so if you find enough success with it then good for you. I do wonder how succesful it is and at what level it starts failing and working against you more often than it works for you. For the wayward queen I think it is as early as 900-1000 that it starts working against you, probably. Even if lower rated players than that can defend against the scholar's mate attempt they might not be able to play in such a way as to punish it and so the game becomes equal and the attempt is essentially risk-free.

@Kippus

To be fair, I did say that it worked well in MY experience. After 1200 it works maybe half the time but you definitely need to know more of the theory and some of blacks counter threats like the traxler counter attack. I got beat with that a couple months back after attempting a fried liver attack and i'll say, that was definitely one to learn from. But you'd be suprised how often a move is misplayed in that attack. For some reason, some people have gotten to the higher levels without really knowing too much about it. When I first learned it I figured it was something everyone above say 1000 would know how to defend against. But I still run into a good amount of people who just misplay against it a few moves in. So I think it's a reasonable thing for beginners to learn and utilize until it does become ultimately ineffective once a higher rating level has been achieved. Either way I had good experiences with it and it made for some fun games.

Also the example I gave was just the first 6 moves, you're right but i didn't intend post the entire lines of theory pertaining to this particular opening. At my level people don't stay with theory for too long, book usually goes out the window before move 10. xD

Well you are the one who actually plays it, I'm surprised it was working out so well for you but I can believe it, people can know shockingly little theory at this ELO (around 1200) , some players know some but serious lack of theory happens frequently, depending on the player and the opening. I get a lot of wins thanks to playing less common but solid openings , which is why I'm surprised the fried liver of all things still works out, because everytime I played against the Italian and played Nf6 they would go for the fried liver, everybody who knows the Italian knows the fried liver. In the lower levels the Italian was incredibly common when I played 1...e5

Habanababananero
BigFoxy90 kirjoitti:
Habanababananero wrote:
BigFoxy90 kirjoitti:
Greaseflake wrote:

As far as fried liver attacks go, my experience says that they don't work for players with a rating above 500 on here.

@Greaseflake

Buddy, the fried liver works up to 1200 in my experience. I went for a fried liver last night against someone and he played the correct move after exd5 which is Na5. But I knew more about the continuation and was able to use that to my advantage because I played it A LOT at your level. It's great for your level. Just remember if they play Na5 after exd5 check on b5 with the bishop, trade the pawns when he goes c6 and then move the bishop back to d3 and play from there.

It's worth it and is a good attack at your level. Good luck, friend. Best vibes. 🙏

It is Fried Liver only after 5… Nxd5 and and 6. Nxf7. 6. d4 would make it the Lolli Attack.

You are talking about the main line of the Two Kinghts Defense Knight Attack, which is not the same thing at all.

@Habanababananero

That's not what i'm talking about at all. i'm posting a pgn of what i'm talking about. Maybe I don't visualize things well in my head while trying to type them out, but here you go.

I was SAYING after 4. Ng5 - d5 then 5. exd5 Na5 with Na5 being the main point i'm trying to make. A lot of people will make the mistake of taking with 5. exd5 - Nxd5 and then obviously the fried liver unfolds after that. I was talking about the continuation into the polerio, bishop check line. 
I wasn't saying that 4. 5. exd5 - Na5 was the fried liver, it's actually called the polerio defense and I was saying simply it's the best way ( in my experience ) to refute the fried liver. I don't even know of the lolli attack. lmao So at least that gives me something to look at and learn about tonight.

Well the pgn shows exactly what I was talking about.

That is NOT the Fried Liver Attack. It is only Fried Liver after the Knight sac on f7.

That was my whole point.

A lot of people call everything Fried Liver after Ng5.

And yeah, the Lolli is supposedly even better than the Fried Liver.

Habanababananero
BigFoxy90 kirjoitti:
Habanababananero wrote:
BigFoxy90 kirjoitti:
Greaseflake wrote:

As far as fried liver attacks go, my experience says that they don't work for players with a rating above 500 on here.

@Greaseflake

Buddy, the fried liver works up to 1200 in my experience. I went for a fried liver last night against someone and he played the correct move after exd5 which is Na5. But I knew more about the continuation and was able to use that to my advantage because I played it A LOT at your level. It's great for your level. Just remember if they play Na5 after exd5 check on b5 with the bishop, trade the pawns when he goes c6 and then move the bishop back to d3 and play from there.

It's worth it and is a good attack at your level. Good luck, friend. Best vibes. 🙏

It is Fried Liver only after 5… Nxd5 and and 6. Nxf7. 6. d4 would make it the Lolli Attack.

You are talking about the main line of the Two Kinghts Defense Knight Attack, which is not the same thing at all.

@Habanababananero

That's not what i'm talking about at all. i'm posting a pgn of what i'm talking about. Maybe I don't visualize things well in my head while trying to type them out, but here you go.

I was SAYING after 4. Ng5 - d5 then 5. exd5 Na5 with Na5 being the main point i'm trying to make. A lot of people will make the mistake of taking with 5. exd5 - Nxd5 and then obviously the fried liver unfolds after that. I was talking about the continuation into the polerio, bishop check line. 
I wasn't saying that 4. 5. exd5 - Na5 was the fried liver, it's actually called the polerio defense and I was saying simply it's the best way ( in my experience ) to refute the fried liver. I don't even know of the lolli attack. lmao So at least that gives me something to look at and learn about tonight.

I was trying to say the pgn you posted does show the main line of the two knights defense knight attack.