Trading queens

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jimmyjetset

I was playing black, up a pawn when white offered a pawn swap but in doing so we would also swap queens. Trading queens meant I couldn't castle. I took the deal, but my king was stuck in the middle for half the game. I won the game, but learned I wouldn't accept that trade again.

Here's the question. In general, when would you trade queens to get them off the board if it meant you can't castle?

UnknownForceYt

If the queens are traded your king cant get checkmated easily, so its not that big of an deal if he stays in the middle of the board, probably whithe shouldnt castle either cause in the endgame a king who is near the center might be more active. I personally dislike trading queens that early, but its playable(especially when you're up a pawn👍)

Kraig
Are you really up a pawn? After dxc3, qxd8, kxd8, White will play nxc3 regaining the pawn, with a lead in development, no?
UnknownForceYt

Nope, white 'lost' his d- and c pawn

TrainerMeow
jimmyjetset wrote:

Here's the question. In general, when would you trade queens to get them off the board if it meant you can't castle?

It depends on the exact situation. In your game 6...dxc3 is a playable move, although not the best way to maintain your extra pawn. Before accepting a queen trade like this, you should have an answer to these to questions:

1) How will my king find shelter? (answer: Kd8-c8-b7)

2) What will I get in return for giving up castling right? (answer: an open endgame where the power of your bishops will be felt)

Take the following (Black) opening for example, which a few decades ago enjoyed some popularity at master level.

Below are several master games on this opening:

jimmyjetset

Thank you I'll look at these

Kraig
But white regains the c pawn after nxc3 is what I said? @yt guy
ChessLessonChannelYt

white is down a pawn man after Knightxc3. Black has 7 pawns left, white only 6.

ChessLessonChannelYt

So yeah, of course he has lead in development, but also down a pawn

pfren

Black is more or less a clear pawn up after 6...dxc3, plus bishop pair and easy development... the only reason to "dislike"it is that 6...c5 or 7...Nf6 are probably even better.

Compared to similar structures (e.g. Berlin defense middlegame) Black is much better placed here, due to the extra pawn. The whole white idea is rubbish- he doesn't even get  a development advantage worthy speaking of.

pfren
Optimissed έγραψε:
TrainerMeow wrote:
jimmyjetset wrote:

Here's the question. In general, when would you trade queens to get them off the board if it meant you can't castle?

It depends on the exact situation. In your game 6...dxc3 is a playable move, although not the best way to maintain your extra pawn. Before accepting a queen trade like this, you should have an answer to these to questions:

1) How will my king find shelter? (answer: Kd8-c8-b7)

 

How about Kd8-d7-c6?

 

...Ke8 etc as well. All these ideas are well known from the Berlin, and here Black has the luxury to play like it with a juicy pawn in the pocket. The whole pawn sac idea to reach a Berlin structure as white is silly.

TrainerMeow
Optimissed wrote:
TrainerMeow wrote:
jimmyjetset wrote:

Here's the question. In general, when would you trade queens to get them off the board if it meant you can't castle?

It depends on the exact situation. In your game 6...dxc3 is a playable move, although not the best way to maintain your extra pawn. Before accepting a queen trade like this, you should have an answer to these to questions:

1) How will my king find shelter? (answer: Kd8-c8-b7)

 

How about Kd8-d7-c6?

That is of course possible, and it's difficult to say which route is best. To accommodate the king on c6, though, Black has to push ...c5 before developing his kingside, allowing White extra options like Bf4 and Nd5, targeting the c7-pawn. Safer would be ...Kd8-c8-b7.

TrainerMeow
Optimissed wrote:

None of the positions given in #5 are remotely equivalent because of the doubled pawns.

Below is the OP's question reiterated:

"In general, when would you trade queens to get them off the board if it meant you can't castle?"

No specific pawn formation appears to be indicated.