Illegal Position Contest!

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Avatar of BigDoggProblem
daStrwbrry wrote:
BigDoggProblem wrote:
daStrwbrry wrote:
 

#8676

Black is apparently missing 2P and 1 N. White made 3 captures.

White is missing LSB, which was captured on f1, and N, which must have been captured on the c-file. Black made no other captures, meaning a and f pawns promoted straight down.

If only white could retract f2xe3, the position would unlock, but he must wait until black unpromotes on f1 and retracts that P to f3.

The best bet is an N promotion on f1, but it just isn't fast enough. White's g pawn can uncap an N at several places, but white runs out of pawn retractions with black's P on f2 in all tries.

Nice work with both positions! The first position was meant to be slightly harder than the second, but you still provided brilliant and concise analysis for both.

The second position seems to be just another case of white running out of tempo by one move. However, it does feature some rather interesting knight geometry: a N on f1 takes 1 move to g3, 2 moves to g4, 3 moves to g5, and 4 moves to g6. Of course, the sooner white uncaptures the bN, the more pawn tempi available, but also more moves for the bN to retract to f1.

The first one is a interesting problem in that it always comes down to one piece not getting back, and that one can be several different pieces.

Avatar of daStrwbrry
BigDoggProblem wrote:

The first one is a interesting problem in that it always comes down to one piece not getting back, and that one can be several different pieces.

I didn’t think about retracting pieces back home (apart from Ra8, which goes home once h6-h7 is retracted): I was thinking more about forward moves reaching the position, with wBg8, wPh6, bBc8 and bPs trapping the royalty. But I guess you are right - it is interesting when you consider retracting all pieces back home.

In fact, all those 4 pieces which you had mentioned in your illegality proof can return home, but only if the last move is Qe1xQf1+. This prevents a different type of piece (Bc8) from returning home.

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daStrwbrry wrote:
 

#8681

Try - retract:

...and the Black Rooks can get home, but what is the next pawn uncapture?

* If ...e7xBf6, the bQ cannot get home.

* If b2xQc3, wBc1 cannot get home.

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Avatar of daStrwbrry
BigDoggProblem wrote:
daStrwbrry wrote:
 

#8681

Try - retract:

...and the Black Rooks can get home, but what is the next pawn uncapture?

* If ...e7xBf6, the bQ cannot get home.

* If b2xQc3, wBc1 cannot get home.

Yes - that is one of the tries that comes up short of legality. I would say that there are some other tries worth mentioning though.

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EvinSung wrote:
#8805

I think that position is legal: last move could be cxb1=R+.

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

Yeah I liked that one until I saw that possibility. And then whites last move before that could have been alot of things!

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XPGK99 wrote:
BigDoggProblem wrote:
 

Am i just too low Elo to understand why this is illegal.

Elo doesn't help very much on these.

It's more like you're an arbiter checking if the rules of chess have been correctly followed.

Or better, a "chess detective" like Sherlock Holmes analyzing what happened before the diagram / scene of the crime.

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

It's legal unfortunately. The black rook was on c3, just before white played e5-e6 discovered check.

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BigDoggProblem wrote:
 

Can black retract Rg3 and white retract e6?

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 Chessman265 wrote:

This is a common trick puzzle, because it appears in a semi-famous book, but is it possible for this position to be reached with white to move?

lol

Avatar of Cheese

I know which book you are talking about