Thanks for the post.
Is that annotated game from a book or site? I enjoyed it and those particular annotations were well written and instructive.
It's an excerpt from an unfinished book
I just found it relevant to the topic "help understanding a move", because in chess most is about a move being part of a plan.
It was relevant and well written in my opinion. I was hoping to be able to view more annotations like this one.
1.Nc3 blocks the c-pawn for no reason.
Why is that relevant? Genuine question. It’s the same as if Black had ...Nc6 in for free at the start of the game - can’t be a bad thing.
Also not sure why 4...Bxe4 is something you would play again - surely this is just accepting a slight but long-term disadvantage. It doesn’t follow principles.
1.Nc3 blocks the c-pawn for no reason.
Why is that relevant? Genuine question. It’s the same as if Black had ...Nc6 in for free at the start of the game - can’t be a bad thing.
Also not sure why 4...Bxe4 is something you would play again - surely this is just accepting a slight but long-term disadvantage. It doesn’t follow principles.
I have a basic repertiore for responding to 1.Nf3, 1.e4, 1.d4 or 1.c4
Would it be a good investment to study a specific response to 1.Nc3? I feel like the game is probably transposing in a few moves or I will be fine. I don’t know if there is a certain 1.Nc3 d5 line that I need to be worried about or what the problem is. I thought I could just be happy that 1.Nc3 is played as I don’t see strong players playing it really. Maybe I’m super wrong though. In the books I’ve read the author has always had a general disdain for the move so that effected my thoughts as well.
I heed the council that 4.Bxe4 is bad. but that is just a sign of my weakness as it seemed like it would be comfortable for me to play and I felt worse for a second since I noticed that the b7 pawn was hanging after Qxe4 I kind of thought that the 3.Bf5 was more of a mistake than anything. 3.Nf6 was probably better.
1.Nc3 blocks the c-pawn for no reason.
Why is that relevant? Genuine question. It’s the same as if Black had ...Nc6 in for free at the start of the game - can’t be a bad thing.
Also not sure why 4...Bxe4 is something you would play again - surely this is just accepting a slight but long-term disadvantage. It doesn’t follow principles.
I have a basic repertiore for responding to 1.Nf3, 1.e4, 1.d4 or 1.c4
Would it be a good investment to study a specific response to 1.Nc3? I feel like the game is probably transposing in a few moves or I will be fine. I don’t know if there is a certain 1.Nc3 d5 line that I need to be worried about or what the problem is. I thought I could just be happy that 1.Nc3 is played as I don’t see strong players playing it really. Maybe I’m super wrong though. In the books I’ve read the author has always had a general disdain for the move so that effected my thoughts as well.
I heed the council that 4.Bxe4 is bad. but that is just a sign of my weakness as it seemed like it would be comfortable for me to play and I felt worse for a second since I noticed that the b7 pawn was hanging after Qxe4 I kind of thought that the 3.Bf5 was more of a mistake than anything. 3.Nf6 was probably better.
1,Nc3 doesn't really give any problems if you understand openings and don't just follow opening lines blindly. You don't need any opening preparation to see that 2...d4 is clearly best. Black gains space without losing a tempo. 2...dxe5 helps white and 3...Bf5 should be answered with 4.Ng3 winning a tempo and white is better.
There are so many ways to get out of book lines. So for beginners it isn't recommended to spend much time on specific opening lines. General understanding of openings will help you to find the correct response.
1.Nc3 blocks the c-pawn for no reason.
Why is that relevant? Genuine question. It’s the same as if Black had ...Nc6 in for free at the start of the game - can’t be a bad thing.
Also not sure why 4...Bxe4 is something you would play again - surely this is just accepting a slight but long-term disadvantage. It doesn’t follow principles.
I have a basic repertiore for responding to 1.Nf3, 1.e4, 1.d4 or 1.c4
Would it be a good investment to study a specific response to 1.Nc3? I feel like the game is probably transposing in a few moves or I will be fine. I don’t know if there is a certain 1.Nc3 d5 line that I need to be worried about or what the problem is. I thought I could just be happy that 1.Nc3 is played as I don’t see strong players playing it really. Maybe I’m super wrong though. In the books I’ve read the author has always had a general disdain for the move so that effected my thoughts as well.
I heed the council that 4.Bxe4 is bad. but that is just a sign of my weakness as it seemed like it would be comfortable for me to play and I felt worse for a second since I noticed that the b7 pawn was hanging after Qxe4 I kind of thought that the 3.Bf5 was more of a mistake than anything. 3.Nf6 was probably better.
"Would it be a good investment to study a specific response to 1.Nc3?"
This would be a waste of your time. You played the ideal move.
1.Nc3 blocks the c-pawn for no reason.
Why is that relevant? Genuine question. It’s the same as if Black had ...Nc6 in for free at the start of the game - can’t be a bad thing.
Also not sure why 4...Bxe4 is something you would play again - surely this is just accepting a slight but long-term disadvantage. It doesn’t follow principles.
I have a basic repertiore for responding to 1.Nf3, 1.e4, 1.d4 or 1.c4
Would it be a good investment to study a specific response to 1.Nc3? I feel like the game is probably transposing in a few moves or I will be fine. I don’t know if there is a certain 1.Nc3 d5 line that I need to be worried about or what the problem is. I thought I could just be happy that 1.Nc3 is played as I don’t see strong players playing it really. Maybe I’m super wrong though. In the books I’ve read the author has always had a general disdain for the move so that effected my thoughts as well.
I heed the council that 4.Bxe4 is bad. but that is just a sign of my weakness as it seemed like it would be comfortable for me to play and I felt worse for a second since I noticed that the b7 pawn was hanging after Qxe4 I kind of thought that the 3.Bf5 was more of a mistake than anything. 3.Nf6 was probably better.
1,Nc3 doesn't really give any problems if you understand openings and don't just follow opening lines blindly. You don't need any opening preparation to see that 2...d4 is clearly best. Black gains space without losing a tempo. 2...dxe5 helps white and 3...Bf5 should be answered with 4.Ng3 winning a tempo and white is better.
There are so many ways to get out of book lines. So for beginners it isn't recommended to spend much time on specific opening lines. General understanding of openings will help you to find the correct response.
Good points. I didn’t focus enough in the opening I guess. I think part of it was that 1.Nc3 threw me off but that is just an excuse. I should of found 2..d4 fairly easy and I know that knights before bishops is a good rule of thumb. Chess is a game of focus and clearly I didn’t give the opening enough focus because I wasn’t worried. I have to make some changes for improvement and I think that the mindset I portrayed with this game is unacceptable.
Here is the game:
Now my main question is this: Why on earth does the computer like 17..Qe7 instead of the move played. I happen to think that this may be a very computer like move but would like to hear some thoughts.
I did not see any why 1. .... Qe7 is considered the best move !Which engine you use, on how many nodes or at what depth?
Here is analysis by latest versions of both Stockfish and Leela (April 2019 versions, where SF analysis at 800 million nodes and Leela analysis at 0.5 million nodes)
.
Both agreed 17..... h6 as best move at depth 56. I will not learn computer moves in this position as the position is too complex for a human to think like engines.
Both 17... h6 or Bf6 seemed fine to me. I will choose either one of it and forced exchange pieces that will guarantee a win to me. To compare whether Bf6 is better or h6 is better, you need to visualize the whole game tree up to depth 56 of stockfish. To do so, You need to right click on evaluation window of analysis, then choose variation board, and go right arrow on the bottom of variation board until the end of principal variation where the evaluation of stockfish come from.
(Engines never evaluate current position, engines evaluate the position at the highest depth of his best line or principal variation )
Would it be a good investment to study a specific response to 1.Nc3?
Not a specific response per se, but which of all available plans you feel more comfortable with.
For instance, if you reply advancing the d–pawn White has the option of playing for a closed position or opening the e–file, in which case you not only need to understand the position but also know some theory.
I prefer not to define my central pawn structure that soon unless I'm playing White (and am a tempo up to deal with counter attacks). So, rather than allowing White clearer plans I go for 1...c7–c5, which usually transposes into a Sicilian of some sort. Those that don't want to play a Sicilian, may opt for 1...Ng8–f6, which may transpose into a Pirc or a King's Indian Attack.
Now, you have to consider that the main value of moves like 1.Nc3 comes from taking the opponent away from his pet, and well studied, lines. That's why you see players like Ivanchuk, Nakamura or Morozevich using it every now and then... against GMs.
First, white surely loses time with his Queen in the opening, but why do you allow him the luxury of the bishop pair? 4...e6 suggests itself, although white can sort-of justify the Queen move with 5.Ng3 Bxc2 6.Qxb7 Nd7 with a murky position, so the calm 4...Bg6 seems perfectly good.
Second, 4...Qd5 fails to keep the bishop pair after 5.Nd6+.
Third, you are right to assume that 10...Ne5 is some sort of cheapo without any real punch. 11.Nxe5 Qxe5+ 12.Qe2 and Black is certainly not better.
You can question your 11...Bc5 which forces white to play a useful move (12.d4) with gain of time.
And finally, 13.Bxe6 is an interesting sacrifice. You could avoid complications with 13...0-0 when you have good compensation for a pawn, but anyway- after 13...fxe6 white had to continue 14.Qxe6+ Kf8 15.Ng5 Re8 16.0-0 Rxe6 17.Nxe6+ Kf7 18.Nxc7 Bxc7, wih a complex, unbalanced ending. An engine will likely count that 7 is larger than 6, and claim a slight white advantage, but in practice I would rather prefer the 2 pieces against rook and two pawns.
After 14.Ng5? the game is effectively over: white has no compensation for the piece, and the question about 17...h6 or 17...Qe7 being better than 17...Bf6 is purely academical: Black is winning in all cases.
Very instructive post. Thank you for your reply.
I like the calm 4..Bg6 and I didn’t even think about it honestly.
I was curious how the bishop sac was supposed to go. It was very unclear to me but I saw that I had Re8 ideas since whites king was in the middle of the board so I was wondering what the compensation would be.
Thanks for the post.
Is that annotated game from a book or site? I enjoyed it and those particular annotations were well written and instructive.
It's an excerpt from an unfinished book
I just found it relevant to the topic "help understanding a move", because in chess most is about a move being part of a plan.