How is this a blunder!?

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toaster-man
eric0022 wrote:

Rxe7 is easily winning because the White queen is placed in a very dangerous position for the Black king. If the game follows 1...Rxe7 2. Rxe7 Qxe7 3. d6+ Qf7, then 4. Bd5 finishes the queen.

 

ajl721x, if the Black queen captures the hanging knight on b6, then Black's doom will come even more quickly i.e. 1. Rxe7 Qxb6? 2. d6+ and it's sayonara for Black.

 

The main reason why the computer labels this a blunder is because the best move available is better than your played move by many points, even if your played move is still winning. I would personally play the same move 1. Rxe7 rather than the best possible move 1. Re6 (which technically looks like a mouse-slip of 1. Rxe7).

 

P.S. I wonder how the White knight managed to land on the b6 square.

Thanks man, for your answer. from a4 grin.png

toaster-man
Algebraist wrote:
It’s not what we’d normally call a blunder because you are still winning, a knight up, after that combination since queen can’t take on e7, and will instead probably move king to break the pin. However black has some counter play re attacking the white knight, which needs rescuing.
However the engine views it as a blunder because Re6 instead gives you a better winning position

But to my understanding a blunder is a game losing move, right? shoulding this be called a mistake instead?

WBillH
toaster-man wrote:
Algebraist wrote:
It’s not what we’d normally call a blunder because you are still winning, a knight up, after that combination since queen can’t take on e7, and will instead probably move king to break the pin. However black has some counter play re attacking the white knight, which needs rescuing.
However the engine views it as a blunder because Re6 instead gives you a better winning position

But to my understanding a blunder is a game losing move, right? shoulding this be called a mistake instead?

 

That is not how a blunder is defined in the auto-analysis software I've seen.  In the ones that allow you to define whether to use ? or ?? (mistake or blunder), the difference is in how many centipawns the move differs from the "optimal" one.  I've seen mistakes defined anywhere from fractional to full pawns, and then blunders being anywhere from most of a pawn to a pawn and a half to a piece.

I don't know how chess.com defines a blunder vs a mistake, but my educated guess is that it is defined in terms of scoring change and not game winning/losing.  That, in itself, would also require some type of boundary.

toaster-man
WBillH wrote:
toaster-man wrote:
Algebraist wrote:
It’s not what we’d normally call a blunder because you are still winning, a knight up, after that combination since queen can’t take on e7, and will instead probably move king to break the pin. However black has some counter play re attacking the white knight, which needs rescuing.
However the engine views it as a blunder because Re6 instead gives you a better winning position

But to my understanding a blunder is a game losing move, right? shoulding this be called a mistake instead?

 

That is not how a blunder is defined in the auto-analysis software I've seen.  In the ones that allow you to define whether to use ? or ?? (mistake or blunder), the difference is in how many centipawns the move differs from the "optimal" one.  I've seen mistakes defined anywhere from fractional to full pawns, and then blunders being anywhere from most of a pawn to a pawn and a half to a piece.

I don't know how chess.com defines a blunder vs a mistake, but my educated guess is that it is defined in terms of scoring change and not game winning/losing.  That, in itself, would also require some type of boundary.

Right? ok. I guess I understand it better now, I dont know. Thank you! anyway grin.png

tacticspotter

Wait does all of your engines say blunder?

mine says good

nTzT

It will depend on the depth that it's running.

peeko4

yea

tacticspotter
nTzT 写道:

It will depend on the depth that it's running.

Same depth tho,chess.com engine always 18 depth unless you are diamond

tacticspotter
Warlord1981NL 写道:

You are essentially inviting a trade of 2 of your rooks for a rook and a knight. I would probably just have retreated the knight to A4. Or rook E6 to cover the knight from being taken by Blacks queen. Either way, save that knight.

And that is why you are a 800

Trading rook for knight actually ends up with pinning the queen with the bishop

LeventK11111111

It is not a blunder. Just making the win "harder" on the computer level.

For example, when you can force a winning pawn endgame, you may simplify the position but computer may say blunder anyway if you had a checkmate in 9 happy.png

toaster-man
Levent_Acemi wrote:

It is not a blunder. Just making the win "harder" on the computer level.

For example, when you can force a winning pawn endgame, you may simplify the position but computer may say blunder anyway if you had a checkmate in 9

I know, but it still shouldnt be a blunder it should be a mistake. Thats all am saying grin.png 

Rudy_Alejo

what if after Rxe7, black move: Nd4? black wins the Knight and the Bishop and get better position, that why is a blunder, white loose position and material.

tacticspotter
AwareBug 写道:

what if after Rxe7, black move: Nd4? black wins the Knight and the Bishop and get better position, that why is a blunder, white loose position and material.

I don’t understand what you are saying...

white is up a piece and the bishop is protected by the pawn,the knight can get protected by the rook

white is still up material

Rudy_Alejo
tacticspotter wrote:
AwareBug 写道:

what if after Rxe7, black move: Nd4? black wins the Knight and the Bishop and get better position, that why is a blunder, white loose position and material.

I don’t understand what you are saying...

white is up a piece and the bishop is protected by the pawn,the knight can get protected by the rook

white is still up material

what if Rxe7, Rxe7, white getting the Knight.

After that white will play Rxe7, if blacks Qxd7 will end up loosing the Queen because the bishop. so instead playing Qxe7, blacks plays Nd4, it may prevent Re6.  as you say is right, trying to obtain the rook or the Knight will be a disaster for black if that pawn moves, putting the black King in check, because the Bishop and the Queen.

tacticspotter
AwareBug 写道:
tacticspotter wrote:
AwareBug 写道:

what if after Rxe7, black move: Nd4? black wins the Knight and the Bishop and get better position, that why is a blunder, white loose position and material.

I don’t understand what you are saying...

white is up a piece and the bishop is protected by the pawn,the knight can get protected by the rook

white is still up material

what if Rxe7, Rxe7, white getting the Knight.

After that white will play Rxe7, if blacks Qxd7 will end up loosing the Queen because the bishop. so instead playing Qxe7, blacks plays Nd4, it may prevent Re6.  as you say is right, trying to obtain the rook or the Knight will be a disaster for black if that pawn moves, putting the black King in check, because the Bishop and the Queen.

 

erm so isn’t white just up a piece?

 

Knights_of_Doom

It looks like after 1.Re6 Qback 2.d6 checkmate may be imminent from the next discovered check.  But under time constraints your move is simpler.

Rudy_Alejo
tacticspotter wrote:
AwareBug 写道:
tacticspotter wrote:
AwareBug 写道:

what if after Rxe7, black move: Nd4? black wins the Knight and the Bishop and get better position, that why is a blunder, white loose position and material.

I don’t understand what you are saying...

white is up a piece and the bishop is protected by the pawn,the knight can get protected by the rook

white is still up material

what if Rxe7, Rxe7, white getting the Knight.

After that white will play Rxe7, if blacks Qxd7 will end up loosing the Queen because the bishop. so instead playing Qxe7, blacks plays Nd4, it may prevent Re6.  as you say is right, trying to obtain the rook or the Knight will be a disaster for black if that pawn moves, putting the black King in check, because the Bishop and the Queen.

 

erm so isn’t white just up a piece?

Being more respectfull and polite, black have got a better position than trading the Queen for the Rook in a inminent check mate. This movement worsen the white position at all, it is true there's still a knigh up, but if white comes with another blunder may end up loosing the game, til this point having a  knight up is better than having a queen up on the proposal movement Qxe7, wich is clearly another blunder.

 

tacticspotter

@AwareBug,I don't actually see which part of my sentence is rude

Also a blunder is a move that loses huge amount of material(a piece) or IMMEDIATELY loses

If it is a move that is tricky it is a mistake atmost

Rudy_Alejo

it is classified a blunder because white loose all the advantage, also might end up loosing more material than blacks, position and maybe the game.

tacticspotter
AwareBug 写道:

it is classified a blunder because white loose all the advantage, also might end up loosing more material than blacks, position and maybe the game.

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