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How to proceed from this position?

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jwhitesj

This position is from a game I played on live chess earlier today, I was analyzing the game and I think I made a bad choice for the move I chose, I was hoping to get some opinions on what the best move and what kind of plan I should be going for from the following poition.

 

TonyH

Well whats your assessment of the position? 

what are your canidate moves and why? 

what did you calculate?

i have some familarity with this position so i know what would do as white and black.

you learn a lot more if you write down your ideas and moves then look at what other players suggest. I also think that black picked a bad plan earlier in the position (or does that give too much away?)

jwhitesj
TonyH wrote:

Well whats your assessment of the position? 

what are your canidate moves and why? 

what did you calculate?

i have some familarity with this position so i know what would do as white and black.

you learn a lot more if you write down your ideas and moves then look at what other players suggest. I also think that black picked a bad plan earlier in the position (or does that give too much away?)


Good questions, I had two moves in mind that lead to different ideas.

One is to play Qe7, followed by Rf8  I figured I should put my rook on the semi open file and since my pawns are pointing to the king I should generate play that way.

 

The other move I'm considering here is d5 which after exd5 Bxd5 I'm left with an isolated king pawn. but I have more active pieces

I played d5 in the game because it just felt like the right thing to do since I had the bishop pair and having a more open position might benefit me.

TonyH

shhhhh firebrand :) i want to see what he thinks first. its easy to say oh ya thats what I thought. 

I also should mention what is white's plan going to be and whose is faster because thats also critical in move selection. 

TonyH

in principle I think your plan is the right one. I dont think black can afford to mess around but the question is do the tactics justify it... 

what i see after ...d5 is that things are in 'go' mode. I like it if white instigates the trade on b6 with Bxb6 because then there is a wasted tempo to defend the a2 pawn. so ....d5 2. exd5 Nxd5 and now Nxd5 is a problem as is the f4 square after Bxb6 axb6. 
The problem I see with being too slow is white might beable to lock things down with c4 or play d4 himself (there are some tactics on b7 after a bunch of trades on d4 to be aware of. I think its go time so d5 makes sense a slower approach might work too just feel that a dynamic approach should work as long as white cannt blockade on e4

jwhitesj
TonyH wrote:

shhhhh firebrand :) i want to see what he thinks first. its easy to say oh ya thats what I thought. 

I also should mention what is white's plan going to be and whose is faster because thats also critical in move selection. 

I have no idea what white wants to do, he keeps making empty threats with his queen that are a little annoying, but I feel like my position is a bit better and he doesn't have a clue as to what he wants to do either.

jwhitesj

If this game was analyzed by Roman D. He would probably have some very harsh words for me.  Something a long the lines of, "Why do you play chess if you play this way, you need to play checkers cause you have no idea what you are doing."

horserunnerjogger

It's the simple moves that can make a difference. I would suggest d5. It puts pressure on white's central position, opens up a rank for the queen, and gains central dominance.

jwhitesj
TonyH wrote:

in principle I think your plan is the right one. I dont think black can afford to mess around but the question is do the tactics justify it... 

what i see after ...d5 is that things are in 'go' mode. I like it if white instigates the trade on b6 with Bxb6 because then there is a wasted tempo to defend the a2 pawn. so ....d5 2. exd5 Nxd5 and now Nxd5 is a problem as is the f4 square after Bxb6 axb6. 
The problem I see with being too slow is white might beable to lock things down with c4 or play d4 himself (there are some tactics on b7 after a bunch of trades on d4 to be aware of. I think its go time so d5 makes sense a slower approach might work too just feel that a dynamic approach should work as long as white cannt blockade on e4

I think for what ever reason I know d5 is the right move, but then I'm lost in a fog of not understanding something about chess.  I've been playing for over 10 years now and I still am confused about the plans in the middle game.

The principal of attacking to where your pawns are pointing didn't seem right to me in this posiiton because the center was still in a state of flux, so I had this feeling d5 was the right move, and calculated that after exd5, Nxd5 or Bxd5, I would be in a better position, but then I wasn't sure how to press that advantage.

TonyH

:) thats the fun part about chess. how should you have pressed your advantage is how you get stronger. the minute you did it though things had to be calculated a lot and no fast moves. 

jwhitesj
TonyH wrote:

:) thats the fun part about chess. how should you have pressed your advantage is how you get stronger. the minute you did it though things had to be calculated a lot and no fast moves. 

What do I need to study to get better at that part of the game, I'm not even sure of the correct vocabulary to use to describe what I'm talking about.

horserunnerjogger
jwhitesj wrote:
TonyH wrote:

in principle I think your plan is the right one. I dont think black can afford to mess around but the question is do the tactics justify it... 

what i see after ...d5 is that things are in 'go' mode. I like it if white instigates the trade on b6 with Bxb6 because then there is a wasted tempo to defend the a2 pawn. so ....d5 2. exd5 Nxd5 and now Nxd5 is a problem as is the f4 square after Bxb6 axb6. 
The problem I see with being too slow is white might beable to lock things down with c4 or play d4 himself (there are some tactics on b7 after a bunch of trades on d4 to be aware of. I think its go time so d5 makes sense a slower approach might work too just feel that a dynamic approach should work as long as white cannt blockade on e4

I think for what ever reason I know d5 is the right move, but then I'm lost in a fog of not understanding something about chess.  I've been playing for over 10 years now and I still am confused about the plans in the middle game.

The principal of attacking to where your pawns are pointing didn't seem right to me in this position because the center was still in a state of flux, so I had this feeling d5 was the right move, and calculated that after exd5, Nxd5 or Bxd5, I would be in a better position, but then I wasn't sure how to press that advantage.

You could press your advantage by bringing your queen out to put more pressure on the area the white-square bishop would then cover (after taking the pawn with it), and then sacking your black-square bishop to take white's black-square bishop, which would draw out white's pawn as well, weakening the defences around the king.

The play with the bishop trade is optional, and risky, but it is the way I would keep my momentum going.

jwhitesj
FirebrandX wrote:
TonyH wrote:

shhhhh firebrand :) i want to see what he thinks first. its easy to say oh ya thats what I thought. 

I also should mention what is white's plan going to be and whose is faster because thats also critical in move selection. 

I should point out my reply was before his, so it wasn't what you claim of "oh ya thats what I thought". Also as I said, Qe7 is perfectly logical and playable here, so it's not a question of speed at this point unless you like taking risks in a tactical dogfight.

He came on here and asked for opinions, so pardon me if I didn't realize your authority to take over the thread and tell the rest of us to butt out so you can quiz him.


I liked your idea too, but I asked more questions of him because he was being more vague, and your idea was fairly concrete and easy to understand.

TonyH

it was but not when i posted it :P only after i cliked enter did it his post update . I am trying to get him to answer questions and see what he is thinking before answers are given. My comment to you was not meant as offensive more tongue-in-cheek (hence the sshhh and smilie face) 

SiRTeTRiS
jwhitesj wrote:

What do I need to study to get better at that part of the game, I'm not even sure of the correct vocabulary to use to describe what I'm talking about.

 

 I'd suggest this great middle game book.

http://www.amazon.com/Chess-Middlegame-Planning-Peter-Romanovsky/dp/0939298805
transpo
jwhitesj wrote:

This position is from a game I played on live chess earlier today, I was analyzing the game and I think I made a bad choice for the move I chose, I was hoping to get some opinions on what the best move and what kind of plan I should be going for from the following poition.

 

Did you win, lose, draw, or not finish this game?

If you would like a different, in my opinion truer, perspective on what the best move is and what kind of plan you should be going for from the position you posted, please let me know. 

jwhitesj
transpo wrote:
jwhitesj wrote:

This position is from a game I played on live chess earlier today, I was analyzing the game and I think I made a bad choice for the move I chose, I was hoping to get some opinions on what the best move and what kind of plan I should be going for from the following poition.

 

Did you win, lose, draw, or not finish this game?

If you would like a different, in my opinion truer, perspective on what the best move is and what kind of plan you should be going for from the position you posted, please let me know. 

I won the game, but only because my opponent made the last mistake.

transpo
jwhitesj wrote:
transpo wrote:
jwhitesj wrote:

This position is from a game I played on live chess earlier today, I was analyzing the game and I think I made a bad choice for the move I chose, I was hoping to get some opinions on what the best move and what kind of plan I should be going for from the following poition.

 

Did you win, lose, draw, or not finish this game?

If you would like a different, in my opinion truer, perspective on what the best move is and what kind of plan you should be going for from the position you posted, please let me know. 

I won the game, but only because my opponent made the last mistake.

Could you please either post the full game together with a functional diagram and algebraic notation, or guide me, how to find it on your home page.

jwhitesj
transpo

Thanks for posting the full game.

I will be posting an answer in about 2 to 3 hrs.  I have some business to attend to in the interim.