i was black, on move 16 i sacrificed the bishop in order to win a fork between the rook and queen....check out what white did 2 moves later with his queen...
how would you describe this ?
how would you regard this situation
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astral_travel
Jan 24, 2021
0
#1
Jan 24, 2021
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#2
Ah yes, the mighty counter-fork. A rare sight.
I guess when you sacrifice material you have to be very sure that you will get paid back for it. Your opponent punished you for being overly aggressive. But at your level it's no shame that you missed Qc6+. It's a great start that you saw the sac for a fork!
"The queen can put you in check, therefore it has a free move." That is one way to view it. Any double attack involving it has to be aware of the fact it can move out of that square with check, forcing you to respond to the check and allow them a follow-up.
Even if you missed the 3 move calculation of them being able to create a double attack after your sacrifice and double attack, noticing their check alone should give you enough to avoid the mistake you made here. Before making a move, look at all checks and captures available in that position. Knowing the checks and captures of the previous turn will mean you will only need to see what is new as a result of the new moves. Forcing attacks is also somethin to check for, but those are harder to see all of, so just try to find what you can, such as attacking pieces, double attacks, etc. As you improve you can see more of them.
Jan 24, 2021
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#4
thank you both Wildekaart and catmaster ! your help is much appreciated...
Take that lesson and use it the next time someone puts you in a fork, can I get out of this fork somehow? If the fork is on my rook and my bishop, can one of them move to check his king as a sidestep? Or can one of them move creating an attack on his queen? If the bishop for instance is able to move threatning his queen then it doesn't matter that he has a threat on your rook, and when he moves his queen you can safely move your rook and both pieces are now safe from the earlier fork he placed.
Always have to look for those variations, so for instance in your game here, simply moving your queen to d7 before you made the actual attack would've covered his counter-attack, but, it's good that you saw the fork in the first place.
Also, look at the position of your king and queen now after he checked you, if he had a piece covering f6 he could've moved his bishop to f6 right after that check, creating a spear (what's the english word for it? It's called spear in swedish) with your king and queen, a nasty situation, but, I guess you would've moved the king to f8 instead.
This is just another sad lesson in the priority of check. White was able to evade your fork because he could safely move on of the pinned pieces with check, In your case, it was even worse, since White's queen check was also a double attack, picking up your knight.
Jan 24, 2021
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#7
Thank you Danne for the lengthy/detailed answer, it helped me allot !
Thank you Laskersnephew as well !
Jan 26, 2021
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#8
this is a game i'm kinda proud of, it's very simple, but i like it. i was black. the reason i wanted to share this game is because, IMHO my moves were sound, but for some reason the engine doesn't agree with some of the things i did...i'll be glad if you check it out, i don't know whether the engine is missing on basic calculations, or is it actually correct - i mean, i get assistance from the engine, it shows some true stuff the majority of the time, but then i see it tells me i did a mistake, and i don't see why would it be so...anyway, let me know what you think, i'll be glad...
astral_travel wrote:
this is a game i'm kinda proud of, it's very simple, but i like it. i was black. the reason i wanted to share this game is because, IMHO my moves were sound, but for some reason the engine doesn't agree with some of the things i did...i'll be glad if you check it out, i don't know whether the engine is missing on basic calculations, or is it actually correct - i mean, i get assistance from the engine, it shows some true stuff the majority of the time, but then i see it tells me i did a mistake, and i don't see why would it be so...anyway, let me know what you think, i'll be glad...
I'd grab the PGN from the regular game rather than the analysis or edit the PGN to make it normal instead of having these long computer lines riddled throughout. Better to post losses, there's usually more to say.
Jan 26, 2021
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#10
hey catmaster ! thank you for the relating to the game, it helps much !
great insights !
Jan 26, 2021
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#11
If someone punched white but white poked black in the eyes. That’s how I see it.
Jan 26, 2021
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#13
btw, catmaster, in the report - it says i had a missed win, mate in 1 - i don't quite see it
Jan 26, 2021
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#14
astral_travel wrote:
didn't quite get that, B1ZMARK...
Well that’s what Qc6+ was. Black gets poked in the eye, and you have to deal with that first before worrying about everything else...
Jan 26, 2021
0
#15
ah yea, you're right, and the engine told me it was a mistake, so what's that about
astral_travel wrote:
btw, catmaster, in the report - it says i had a missed win, mate in 1 - i don't quite see it
Shouldn't it give the line for said mate in 1? Which game and move was it on?
Just to be clear, a missed win isn't necessarily mate in 1 btw.
Jan 26, 2021
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#17
well actually now that i look at it - he couldn't Qc6+, my queen was on that row
Jan 26, 2021
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#19
btw, i'm studying right now one of the video lessons, and basically the instructor says you gotta put pressure on certain points/pawns, like, by having a threat on the same point/pawn with several pieces. yet, i always found this kind of 'head into the wall"/brute-force attack kinda inelegant/primitive.....do you have something to say on the subject ?