King's Gambit Question For The Black Pieces In This Line

KeSetoKaiba

Natural_Confidence

gotta love Kings gambit.. i play it all the time both in blitz and in  correspondence games.. it always makes for a  fun game

Natural_Confidence

Interesting enough i am not great at playing Kings gambit as a black..as paradoxically as it sounds i think its due to my inherent love for it , just cant get myself to smash the brother who plays f4

KeSetoKaiba
Natural_Confidence wrote:

gotta love Kings gambit.. i play it all the time both in blitz and in  correspondence games.. it always makes for a  fun game

I agree. Many King's gambit lines are sharp and dynamic even if some of the highest levels doubt its soundness. In practical play, both sides can lead to some fun and interesting positions where the better prepared player usually wins. 

That is one reason I would like to learn the subtle points of this specific position here happy.png I wonder if there is a motif I am missing or something - Black is definitely better after 5.Ke2 I believe, but how to convert that advantage into something more is the question.

Natural_Confidence
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
Natural_Confidence wrote:

gotta love Kings gambit.. i play it all the time both in blitz and in  correspondence games.. it always makes for a  fun game

I agree. Many King's gambit lines are sharp and dynamic even if some of the highest levels doubt its soundness. In practical play, both sides can lead to some fun and interesting positions where the better prepared player usually wins. 

That is one reason I would like to learn the subtle points of this specific position here  I wonder if there is a motif I am missing or something - Black is definitely better after 5.Ke2 I believe, but how to convert that advantage into something more is the question.

haha yes.. btw why do you think black is definitely better  after Ke2?

is it pc analysis based or it's just  the looks of it?

I mean perhaps it is true, but i am not sure.. its ugly looking  but looks are often deceitful in chess.. this is one of the reasons i love to play kings gambit.. as soon as  i move my king  the attention and determination of my opponent is softened hes thinking this will be easy , and that might be very dangerous, and it even becomes irritating when you start to experience the struggle of converting this 'advantage' into something more tangible.

It is ugly looking but I always feel my king is safer in KG than in any other opening where i get to castle.. theres a ton psychology there probably  as well as the level at which i play but also  rarity of this opening make it harder to crack for some people 

 

ijohn21

YOU ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARDImage result for kermit gif

Natural_Confidence
ijohn21 wrote:

YOU ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD

ahahahah!

KeSetoKaiba
Natural_Confidence wrote:
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
Natural_Confidence wrote:

gotta love Kings gambit.. i play it all the time both in blitz and in  correspondence games.. it always makes for a  fun game

I agree. Many King's gambit lines are sharp and dynamic even if some of the highest levels doubt its soundness. In practical play, both sides can lead to some fun and interesting positions where the better prepared player usually wins. 

That is one reason I would like to learn the subtle points of this specific position here  I wonder if there is a motif I am missing or something - Black is definitely better after 5.Ke2 I believe, but how to convert that advantage into something more is the question.

haha yes.. btw why do you think black is definitely better  after Ke2?

is it pc analysis based or it's just  the looks of it?...

Mainly it is just my personal analysis that Black already has the advantage. Yes the pc analysis claims Black is better too, but I can evaluate the position to the same result myself without a chess engine as well. White has lost castling rights (which accounts for something), I believe Black's initiative could also tell if something can come out of it. Maybe the biggest reason I feel Black is already better after Ke2 is because I intuitively feel like Black can develop pieces and rip open specific lines again White's oddly placed King - the specifics of how effective Black can do so (or not as effective as I'd like) is why I created this forum. Does anyone think White is better? Equal? 

p.s. the gifs are kind of funny, but I like the Kramer one from Seinfeld the best so far. I like the "trap card" comment too, but Kermit seems to be moving a bit too - umm, erratically xD

Natural_Confidence
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
Natural_Confidence wrote:
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
Natural_Confidence wrote:

gotta love Kings gambit.. i play it all the time both in blitz and in  correspondence games.. it always makes for a  fun game

I agree. Many King's gambit lines are sharp and dynamic even if some of the highest levels doubt its soundness. In practical play, both sides can lead to some fun and interesting positions where the better prepared player usually wins. 

That is one reason I would like to learn the subtle points of this specific position here  I wonder if there is a motif I am missing or something - Black is definitely better after 5.Ke2 I believe, but how to convert that advantage into something more is the question.

haha yes.. btw why do you think black is definitely better  after Ke2?

is it pc analysis based or it's just  the looks of it?...

Mainly it is just my personal analysis that Black already has the advantage. Yes the pc analysis claims Black is better too, but I can evaluate the position to the same result myself without a chess engine as well. White has lost castling rights (which accounts for something), I believe Black's initiative could also tell if something can come out of it. Maybe the biggest reason I feel Black is already better after Ke2 is because I intuitively feel like Black can develop pieces and rip open specific lines again White's oddly placed King - the specifics of how effective Black can do so (or not as effective as I'd like) is why I created this forum. Does anyone think White is better? Equal? 

p.s. the gifs are kind of funny, but I like the Kramer one from Seinfeld the best so far. I like the "trap card" comment too, but Kermit seems to be moving a bit too - umm, erratically xD

There are several layers at which this can be addressed (the layers are infinite in numbers actually but for the sake of discussion i divided them into a few).

I can list them(actually i am gonna only start listing them since i am getting hungry so gonna go prepare a meal)  then we can go deeper into discussion in the days and weeks ahead us perhaps.

1 yes perhaps as per pc analysis black has a slight advantage but what  level of play we are discussing here? up to 2000 and even higher players have trouble realizing/converting on 0.90 advantage or even 1.19 or similar so for all practical purposes its  almost not even a tangible advantage except if you are  talking GM levels or magnus carlsen and other   players playing at the highest levels.

2 Also  what timeframe we are talking here?.. if its a blitz game.. then again theres no real advantage for black and it could be argued that white has advantage because he often knows KG better than black and KG is counterintuitive so great players with no experience in KG  will have a lot of trouble executing on 1.19 advantage since theres not enough time to  calculate  and analyze all the variants

3  as per your eye test, or intuition, my impression is, i suspect you have no tangible proves its not fooling you here(if i may  say so respectfully), all that i see stated in your post are some  vague notions and rules of thumb, but these rules of thumbs like 'losing castling rights' or 'oddly placed king' are not the absolutes and not winning the games.. you can absolutely win a game without castling and what is seemingly an oddly placed king can be an intricate  part of a bigger and finer complex scheme, a huge trap or a deeper meaningful arrangements of chess figures...

i argue  its exactly this oddly placed king that makes it hard for most opponents to checkmate him.. actually i would argue the black queen is the one  that is oddly placed and wont be able to hold that position for  long time..  often  black will be forced to waste moves in removing here from there and will lose many tempi reacting to  white harassing his queen

 

to be continued... i am going to cook something for myself feel free to comment further

 

 

nighteyes1234
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

Mainly it is just my personal analysis that Black already has the advantage. Yes the pc analysis claims Black is better too, but I can evaluate the position to the same result myself without a chess engine as well. White has lost castling rights (which accounts for something), I believe Black's initiative could also tell if something can come out of it. Maybe the biggest reason I feel Black is already better after Ke2 is because I intuitively feel like Black can develop pieces and rip open specific lines again White's oddly placed King - the specifics of how effective Black can do so (or not as effective as I'd like) is why I created this forum.

You have to look into see the weakness, no matter how small.

Course you could advance the game and look at it and see if its clearer.

 

pfren

Since there is no direct refutation, just get the damn pieces out: 4.c4 Qh4+ 5.Ke2 Bg4+ 6.Nf3 Nd7, and so on.

RussBell

The King's Gambit...

https://www.chess.com/explorer?moveList=e4+e5+f4&ply=3

https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell/the-kings-gambit

KeSetoKaiba
pfren wrote:

Since there is no direct refutation, just get the damn pieces out: 4.c4 Qh4+ 5.Ke2 Bg4+ 6.Nf3 Nd7, and so on.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I think my line of thinking when I usually get into this position is more like IM @pfren - just get the pieces out grin.png I guess I was just wondering if there was something more along the lines of a refutation to White playing 5.Ke2, but it doesn't appear so at the moment. 

Also, thanks for the further dxc6 analysis @vizllsto. I personally think that Nf3 is just a weird computer error in the database or something because I agree with you that White looks much better after Black gives away the Knight on f3 for (what appears to me as) nothing.

If no "refutation" or something of dramatic effect comes up, then I think I'll continue to handle this position by just getting my pieces developed and perhaps the game will look clearer as @nighteyes1234 pointed out.

ZionPureinHeart

This one looks interesting also, Black is winning, but White's king is kind of safe? happy.png

ZionPureinHeart

For a moment in this one, I was thinking, is this Fischer Random Chess 960? happy.png I love also the king's gambit!!)))

KeSetoKaiba

I recall playing a few games like the second game from the Black side. However, the first game has an interesting idea behind 7. Kd3!? I've never seen this move from White. It is probably safer than it looks, but I'll admit it does resemble 960 Chess. Actually, I think it looks more like a King of the Hill (KOTH) position, where I don't think Black can prevent both ...Kd4 or ...Ke4 from winning via getting to a central square. grin.png

congrandolor

Why 3...exf4 ? If I remember well, guys like Morphy and Spassky always played 3...e4, making white development difficult

tlay80

The decline of 3. . . . e4 is mostly attributable to 4. d3, where White has scored quite well in recent decades.

ponz111

If you wish to defeat the Kings Gambit don't play 2. ... d5.   In the line shown Black should conmsider playing 5. ... c6!?

 

pfren
ponz111 έγραψε:

If you wish to defeat the Kings Gambit don't play 2. ... d5.   In the line shown Black should conmsider playing 5. ... c6!?

 

 

I disagree. The line played (2...d5 3.exd5 exf4) is a great, uncomplicated practical choice, and I have also scored well with 2...d5 3.exd5 c6.

I do not give a damn if the engine says "equal"- I get a rational position where it's easy to play actively as Black.