Material Vs. Initiative

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WaterAlch

This wasn't played the best, as most non GM games go, but this could show a couple of ya that losing pieces at the price of gaining initiative/tempo against the king CAN result in a great and spectacular game and ending! :)
trysts

40. Qg4#

WaterAlch

Haha, that is a nice tactic lmao. I saw g4 but didn't think at all it would be mate. Explains why I'm not 1767 yet. :P :) Nice catch.

trysts
WaterAlch wrote:

Haha, that is a nice tactic lmao. I saw g4 but didn't think at all it would be mate. Explains why I'm not 1767 yet. :P :) Nice catch.


I only caught it cause at that point you wrote 'stop and think'Smile

WaterAlch

And to think I didn't catch mate, only check, myself. Epic greatness hahaha.

Dozy

26.Bc4 might have been fun but you got there a couple of moves later.

Nice finish Mr Alch

Shakaali

2... Nc6? is a bad move and 3. d5 is definetly the right way to punish it. After that the knight stands passively on a5 but maybe you let black regroup it too easily via c4. 4. Bd2 doesn't really do anything so I would play 4. e4 taking control of c4 and decide later what to do with Bc1. Also 6. e4! should be an improvement as black really can't play 6... Nxb2? 7. Qc1! Qb6 8. Rb1.

I think that in your comment on move 11 you overestimate whites piece activity. Yes, you may techically have some development advantage but actually your pieces aren't placed very actively. For example Bd3 just stares at your own pawn on e4 and Bd2 does very little apart from protecting Nc3. Also, the concentration of white pieces on the d-file will make it very difficult to carry out e5 pawnbreak as d5 will then always be hanging. Black on the other hand has placed his pieces quite harmoniously, Bg7 being particulary strong. Maybe b6 is not the ideal square for the knight but in the game he regroups this knight succesfully to d7. Actually the only potential problem piece black has is Bc8 and therefore I think white should seriously consider the prophylatic 11. h3 not letting black exchange this bishop for Nf3.

12. a3? doesn't seem to do anything; maybe 12. h3 Bxf3 13. Qxf3 Nbd7 and now Qe2/Qe3/Qg3. 13... h6? seems to be an unnecessary weakening from black. Instead 13... Nh5! 14. Bd2 Ne5 is very strong when black is already better. Also at move 14 black could consider 14... Bxf3 15. Qxf3 Nh5 16. Bd2 Ne5. I'm not sure about 15. g4 - maybe this could have waited - but after 17. Kg2 black definetly could have gotten the advatage with 17. Bxc3! 18. Bxh6 (18. Rh1 h5 or 18... Ne5!?) Ne5!. Therefore something like 17. Nb1!? with the idea Nbd2 should probably have been preferred.

satom

i caught that 40 g4# too!

time pressure makes it so much tougher to see it!

aj415

he blundered his pawn storm attack with a dubious bishop sac. He had your pieces cramped and with a few coordination moves would be flat out winning

WaterAlch

@Shakaali

For everything, thank you for your well thought out analysis. The time control was 7m-0 so understandably both sides made errors. Therefore I am going to use the excuse of time for not seeing the Knight being allowed to take the b2 pawn. (Though i am pretty sure I wouldnt have seen it anyway without a LOT of time Wink

On your first section: Mentioned above. Also, you are right with Bc1 for sure. The Nc4 move just really caught me by surprise.

2nd section: Though I feel you are correct about the limited piece activity at move 11, I was not actually viewing my position in terms of that. Again, correct as far as piece activity goes. However, in terms of mobility and piece placement, my pieces had (or at least I felt that they) themselves better prepared for the kingside attack that can be opened up to White.

3rd section: Your most useful piece of information you stated in my opinion was the a3 call. You were right and to see its uselessness, but I think its important you noticed it for personal reasons. Take a look at how it was playing out a couple of moves after a3. I was (subconsciously) allowing Black to make a move. The importance of this to me is that I have now realized that much of my gameplay is MUCH more RE-active than active, which we know is typically Black's role than Whites.

Curiously enough I went ahead and briefly looked into this on the "Game Explorer: My Games" and percentage-wise I am on average winning more as Black than White.

Very interesting in my opinion. :)

You were quite critical against my playing, which I am thankful for. Especially the a3 catch. I am going to have to learn to keep initiative and play active vs. reactively.

Below are my current "My Game" statistics:

As White:

1.e4 20
40%   60%
1.d4 16
68.8%   31.3%
1.b4 15
60%   40%
1.Nf3 2
50%   50%

 

As Black:

WaterAlch

@aj415:

By move 27 Black has an inactive Rook on a8, very poor Bishop and weak light squares in which Black has limited capability in defending at that moment. With the bishop pair and doubled rooks and a very vulnerable a2-g8 diagonal, Black's pawn storm would have been difficult in pulling off anyway seeing as they are dealing against at least the bishop pair and queen.

For you to support the theory that Black could be in a winning or advantageous position, what coordinating moves specifically would there be to help him achieve this?

Thank you for the reply and hope you will again to my question here :)

aj415

On second look flat winning is an exaggeration but an effective counterrattack is definitely possible

 

.. im not an expert so my detailed analysis probably is not going to be without error but I can just give some key moves I think black could have done..

 

All my comments will be after move 22 and mostly opions on blacks chances ...on move 23 instead of taking with knight (a wtf ??) take with d pawn which adds another pawn to advance against those coordinated but cramped pieces which need a breakthrough.

Bringing the Queen out to the a file to do what looks to white as harmless pawn munching but really accomplishes a piece to use to attack from the flank, as well as connect my rooks.. 

 

I would force a trade of lightsquare bishops because with my lightsquares weakened in a big way such a move is to my advantage

 

Advancing the fpawn to the 4th and 3rd rank will be possible because of the pawn chain and it will be key.. by that point I will have assumed white will have opened up the hfile. but whites darksquared bishop should be terrible and the pawns bearing down on the pieces and monarchs.. and checkmate is hard to accomplish with a great defensive piece in that dark squared bishop.. the queen will have to come over and give check at h7

Defensively moves are obvious after the h file is inevitably broken My king may need to be remaneuverd but unless white is able to accomplish tripling up with the two rooks and Queen before black starts thier own attack against the king then escaping unhinged is not out of the question.. also once I get my king off the 8th rank if the Queen is in front of the rooks now it can be attacked and whites attack stunted due to the queen forced to escape (or find check)... if no check then its blacks move with tempo

 

Also now the a file rook comes into the game in a major way by grabbing the open file at c8 adding another piece to the flank Countterattack

That darksquared bishop is acting as a great defensive piece (only bcus it defends h8 lol) but it is on its most effective diagnal in the game and it only gets more powerful as the pawns move forward and if white is unsuccesful with the checkmate attack then it can eventually assist in the flank counterattack

WaterAlch

@aj415:

Much better general planning! :) Still not making any specific moves which is ok, though still highly suggested, but still good general planning and analysis.

Your "strongest" point is Black's defensive piece: the bishop. As White though, or in general, You need to find the most effective way of beating that defense. Think of what White's best strategy should/would be for dealing with the Bishop and going for the King. Think about it for awhile before reading on............

What you might come up with is simply trying in pinning the Bishop to the King. Setting the Queen on the b-file, if the king ever thinks about trying to leave from the c7 square, the rook can then come up and will garuntee the bishop as a free piece. ;)

Great reading your analysis. I HIGHLY suggest that if you want further improvement to keep up with advancing basic studies and learning to incorporate those in your analysis, which will help a lot in coming up with stronger (may not be best, but for sure stronger) moves.

aj415

Whites plan is simple and very clear break through on the g or h file preferably both. 

Blacks best defense though is to stall white with a counterattack to that is to push the pawns and attack whites pieces and bring pieces into the flank attack

i really would like to think that before the g file opened up black would have the wherewhathal to move the king to f7 to allow the rook to assist in the defense and also repel anything from the queen on the H file and i'm not sure that grabbing the bishop would be that easy after that. Which is why i said escape untinged.

Moot point though.. we'll never know :(

Shakaali
WaterAlch wrote:

2nd section: Though I feel you are correct about the limited piece activity at move 11, I was not actually viewing my position in terms of that. Again, correct as far as piece activity goes. However, in terms of mobility and piece placement, my pieces had (or at least I felt that they) themselves better prepared for the kingside attack that can be opened up to White.

Below are my current "My Game" statistics:

As White:

1.e4 20 40%   60% 1.d4 16 68.8%   31.3% 1.b4 15 60%   40% 1.Nf3 2 50%   50%

 

As Black:

1.e4 38 36.8%   57.9% 1.d4 12     83.3% 1.c4 5 40%   60% 1.Nf3 4 25%   75% 1.e3 2     100% 1.a4 1  garnetwest - WaterAlch (2010) 1.b4 1  dramaman - WaterAlch (2010) 1.g3 1  nicudragomir - WaterAlch (2010) 1.g4 1  pitter0414 - WaterAlch (2010) 1.h4 1  akion - WaterAlch (2010)

I'm not sure which is the exact difference between piece activity and mobility but your idea of playing on the kingside should basicaly be correct though maybe it will be difficult to launch a direct assault there meaning that you need to first act in the centre. The most obvious means of starting actions there would be to prepare e5 but I just felt that your pieces are not very well placed to suport that. So, in this respect I felt your pieces are not very harmoniously placed. By the way, this structure is basically typical for modern Benoni defence or maybe rather to Schmidt Benoni and some of my suggested ideas are quite typical for it.

I'm sorry if I sounded bit too critical of your play. It's just that when analysing you tend to focus more on the mistakes than to great many good moves that were made.

Finally those statistics are really quite interesting. If you score worse with white than with black it indicates that you should probably work on this area to improve your chess in general. Without seeing more of your games I can only speculate what the exact problem might be but maybe you are not that good at using initiative. (Actually, this might just be another way of stating what you are already saying about your re-active style.)

WaterAlch

@aj415:

Good responses. I was really hoping to have you consider the position more thoroughly than you did initially. Get your mind thinking with the true chess spirit.

@Shakaali:

1st section: I dont know a lot of openings.

2nd section: I was actually happy that you were critical, thought I was clear but I hope Im clear enough now :)

3rd: We are in agreement with the initiative. I have been able to make use of tempo many a time and feel i did in this game. But making the first attack always gives me caution. I feel like waiting for a weakness is better, even if the weakness is just an illusion to me. Just kind of repeating what we been saying.

Thanks for your critique, I am going to start studying up on making use of initiative and doing a bit myself! :)

Shakaali
WaterAlch wrote:

 But making the first attack always gives me caution. I feel like waiting for a weakness is better, even if the weakness is just an illusion to me.


Actually, this is quite interesting point to discuss. In general it would be most usefull to have some weaknesses in your opponents position before you launch an attack because they give your attack targets. However, if your opponent has no weaknesses it's not usually enough to wait him to create those weaknesses - strong players are not going to self-destruct just like that. Rather, you have to actively try to provoke those weaknesses. In other words you usually have to play actively to provoke any weaknesses at all.

Edit: Ok, to be totally honest I might be twisting the thruth somewhat here to make a point. It might be sometimes possible to construct very solid position and then just manouvre inside your "fortress" waiting for opponents mistake before launching a counterattack. In such a situation even strong opponents might sometimes overextend in their pursuit of victory and thus weaken their own position. However, playing like this is certainly not the way to use the first moves advantage.

WaterAlch
Shakaali wrote:
WaterAlch wrote:

 But making the first attack always gives me caution. I feel like waiting for a weakness is better, even if the weakness is just an illusion to me.


Actually, this is quite interesting point to discuss. In general it would be most usefull to have some weaknesses in your opponents position before you launch an attack because they give your attack targets. However, if your opponent has no weaknesses it's not usually enough to wait him to create those weaknesses - strong players are not going to self-destruct just like that. Rather, you have to actively try to provoke those weaknesses. In other words you usually have to play actively to provoke any weaknesses at all.

Edit: Ok, to be totally honest I might be twisting the thruth somewhat here to make a point. It might be sometimes possible to construct very solid position and then just manouvre inside your "fortress" waiting for opponents mistake before launching a counterattack. In such a situation even strong opponents might sometimes overextend in their pursuit of victory and thus weaken their own position. However, playing like this is certainly not the way to use the first moves advantage.


No I think you are right, most strong players can probably manage defending their weaknesses, and to get better learning to extend and create enemy weaknesses is a good ability, though quite advanced. That will take some time, but before that I still need more initiative practice.