Rook vs knight end game, how to win?

My legacy of losing winnable end games continue

I was white and lost this. Problem is I don't understand the principle to win this.  In a rook vs knight end game, how should the rook get the advantage I don't get it. If anyone can help it would be great. Thanks. 

When all the pawns are on one side of the board you use zugzwang... pretty much that's how you break any any false fortress. You use zugzwang to displace their pieces and breakthrough to important lines or squares.

But in the position you posted there are a number of open lines and pawn on both sides. Just dance the rook around, for example on the last rank. Either win some pawns or force them to move. When they move they're weaker and you can bring your king over the help win some.

Meanwhile if black's king and knight become too invested in moving the h pawn down the board your passed e pawn should be able to queen pretty easily. Keep in mind you can always sac your rook for their h pawn before it's too late, then queen yourself... but it all starts with brining your pieces (rook and/or king) into contact with weak enemy pawns.

Hey thanks llama, but I'm really bad at end games where opposition has a knight.  I'm scared to move my rook and king closer to knight because I fear I will get forked somehow, then when I try to keep my rook as far away as possible , the opposition knight dances around and grabs all my pawns. Is there some trick to avoid folks by knight. I know king and rook if they are in different coloured squares u can't get folked, but if their knight keeps checking my king, my king and rook will eventually be in the same coloured square at some stage and get folked.  I mean in these end games I avoid bringing my king and rook too close together in fear of forks, but then they can't support each other and I end up losing.  Any tips to rectify my fear of oppositon knight end games. Thanks

I think it just takes practice. Knights can be scary, especially if you're short on time.

Try to look at your position as if you were the opponent. For example in the starting position where are all the squares the knight could fork the king and rook (king is on f3, rook on e4).

Now lets pretend white moves his rook to e8 (king still on f3).  What are all the squares the knight can fork them?

Now look at this. Write a number in each square that shows the smallest number of moves it takes for the black night to arrive. I did 3 of the squares already as an example. Fill out the rest for yourself.

Now that you filled it out, which squares do you think are the safest for white's pieces when they are near the black knight?

Hey. I just filled it. Safest squares are marked number 4.  Now I don't understand how to use this information to my advantage, Do I keep my king or rook on these number 4 squares, but with every new knight move these squares change
, so how can I use this information. Thanks  a lot. 

You asked about help with fearing knights. Mostly you have to calculate to make sure your move is safe. Everyone checks if a move is safe sometimes during the game, but your goal is to check for 100% of your moves in 100% of your games.

This is tough, and takes a lot of practice, so I'm also trying to make it a little fun. When you play around with pieces and an empty board on your own you get more familiar with the patterns. You get more familiar with what is and isn't possible.

For example if a knight checks your king and you don't want your king to be checked on the next move you can move your king to the same color (knights alternate the color they attack every move). Which means if you move the king diagonally the knight can't check you again on the next move.

But there are also those squares marked 4. So moving diagonally is safe, but even more safe is like this:

Coincidentally, in the diagram you posted, a natural move for the rook is to attack the enemy pawns from behind.

And even though the king and rook are on the same color, we already know they can't be forked on the next move. In fact it's going to take the knight a long time to attack the rook.

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But also I asked you to find all the squares the knight can fork the king and rook. You can put pieces on an empty board and try to find all the squares a knight could fork them. Sometimes there are two places a knight can fork. Sometimes only 1.

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Exposing yourself to patterns like this will help you see whether a move is safe, and you'll have more confidence... but like I said it also comes down to practice.

And this isn't a trick I came up with. Lots of people have thought about this stuff on their own and made fun pictures, like this one.

My shorthand for avoiding knight and bishop forks/skewers is to keep your king and piece (rook, queen, pawn, whatevs) on different color squares. In fact, the knight in Llamas diagram always takes an odd number of moves to hit black squares and an even to hit white squares: it cannot target both colors at the same time.

Again, it’s a shorthand, but it helped me out a lot when I’m short on time.

Hey thanks a lot everyone for their help. I tried llama's exercise and they were very helpful, but I just realised one of my major weaknesses in opposition knight end games I have no idea how to move the pawns  against a knight. Can you guys tell me the principle to win this end game. The computer tells me I should win but I lose everytime, I think knowing principles here will help me in the knight end game. How does white win in this game. Thanks so much. White to move and win?

Also how can white move and draw in this positon. I think knowing principles in these 2 scenarios will help me. Thanks a lot 

No need to do such calculations.

" A fork always happens only when all three pieces ( enemy kt, your major pieces)

are in same color".

Do such alert check, which will take approx 0.2 seconds.

Diagram 1, a fork is not possible as they are in different color.

And also, if you keep your pieces in " L" shape,.

None of enemy pieces can attack both and take free.

( by pawns, kt, bishops, rook, or queen).

I just put my pieces like that in bullet, I wont drop a piece.

after you make sure you wont get queened on etc just sac your rook for the knight to eliminate any worry. its a butcher move but if it earns you the win and you gain confidence then so be it

Sam, I notice you play mostly blitz and bullet. This can make improvement more difficult when you are struggling to master basic tactics like this, so you may find your improvement faster if you try playing some slow games. If you only have time for short games or if you are bored by slow games, that's totally okay, the most important thing is to have fun and be consistent.

Considering pawns against a knight.

I gave an example of how I won this endgame against a computer, but I'll give some general tips:

There is a problem for the knight player. The knight can only threaten one color at a time, but pawns change color each time they step forward. Therefore, any time a knight threatens a pawn, it can always escape by stepping forward. This means that a knight can ONLY win a pawn because it is trapped or the knight gets a fork with a king or other pawn.

Therefore, by keeping pawns that don't protect each other to a minimum and making sure the other player isn't easily able to check you, it is nigh impossible for him to win a pawn. Any time the knight threatens a single pawn, that pawn simply steps forward. The only real trick black has beyond that is to stalemate.

For the second position, the big difference here is not really the number of pawns (although because knights change the squares they guard every move, it is true they don't scale up to 4 pawns well) but the king position. I'm not sure if you should be worried about being able to draw that position against a computer though. I am 1500 and that position does not look obvious to draw at all and I'm not sure I could draw it against stockfish given 10 attempts. The idea though is to just set up a situation where your king and knight are blocking the pawns and your knight is defended.

EDIT: Here is my 14th attempt to draw. I can do a write-up for my thought process some other time.

Hey xman thanks you made some very good points.  Especially about pawn moving one step ahead everytime, which I did but never noticed it that way before. However I'm still not clear about winning that 4 pawns end game. I'll make a separate thread for that in end game section because I really like to know how to do it. 

No need to think whether it is a win or draw.

There are 7 men syzgy endgame tablebases for free that can tell you outcome correctly. ( thousand or million times faster than any engine or human with 100% accuracy,)

https://syzygy-tables.info/?fen=2kn4/8/8/8/8/8/1PPPP3/2K5_w_-_-_0_1

Diagram 1,

4 pawns is forced win

Diagram 2,

3 pawns is forced draw.

I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to use tablebases while you're playing though?

This end game should be a pretty easy win, I can't believe that you can't mop up those queen side pawns.  Also, the great Capablanca said that one of the ways you win an ending where you are up the exchange it to look for a chance to sacrifice your rook for the enemy piece when it will allow your king to penetrate successfully.  In your game, how about 1.Re6! threatening Rc6 and winning the c-pawn? If Black plays 1...c5, you have 2.d5 with a dangerous passed pawn. That looks like a good first step.

"but I'm really bad at end games where opposition has a knight.  I'm scared to move my rook and king closer to knight because I fear I will get forked somehow, "

Why not do something about it?  Two questions: 1) if your king and rook are on different colored squares, can they be forked? and 2) If your king is on a white square, what colored square must the knight be on to be able to move and check you? If you know the answer to those two simple questions, you can lose your terror of mysterious knight forks.

knight vs. king + rook endgames are dangerous. you can step into a fork. i would pin knight to the king with my rook and exchange it it in current situation. and push my center pawns (with my king in front)