What criteria(s) could be used to determine who has the initiative?
Your contributions are highly valued. Please feel free to explain yourself clearly. Thanks for inputs.
Inititiave is self explanatory, thanks for asking!
What criteria(s) could be used to determine who has the initiative?
Your contributions are highly valued. Please feel free to explain yourself clearly. Thanks for inputs.
Inititiave is self explanatory, thanks for asking!
What criteria(s) could be used to determine who has the initiative?
Your contributions are highly valued. Please feel free to explain yourself clearly. Thanks for inputs.
Inititiave is self explanatory, thanks for asking!
From my perspective, a new learner, one could always learn a new thing. That is one never stops learning.
What criteria(s) could be used to determine who has the initiative?
Your contributions are highly valued. Please feel free to explain yourself clearly. Thanks for inputs.
You're welcome
You have not provided any input yet. Haha.
What criteria(s) could be used to determine who has the initiative?
Your contributions are highly valued. Please feel free to explain yourself clearly. Thanks for inputs.
Inititiave is self explanatory, thanks for asking!
From my perspective, a new learner, one could always learn a new thing. That is one never stops learning.
It does usually stop stupid questions.
What criteria(s) could be used to determine who has the initiative?
Your contributions are highly valued. Please feel free to explain yourself clearly. Thanks for inputs.
Inititiave is self explanatory, thanks for asking!
From my perspective, a new learner, one could always learn a new thing. That is one never stops learning.
It does usually stop stupid questions.
Now, you are being rude. Since you are such a not-stupid person try to express your chess knowledge an answer that question in a positive way, if you can, like a few others who did the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiative_(chess)
https://www.exeterchessclub.org.uk/content/initiative
I'm sorry for pasting links. My composed opinions could be misunderstood. I'm glad you ask a relevant question other than openings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiative_(chess)
https://www.exeterchessclub.org.uk/content/initiative
I'm sorry for pasting links. My composed opinions could be misunderstood. I'm glad you ask a relevant question other than openings.
I am discovering Chess Theory and the way to learn is sometimes to ask questions, because there are others who have more knowledge than me.
There is nothing to be sorry about. What are the links about?
The fun thing about chess is you can always trade. You can trade initiative for material, then trade that for space, then trade that for pawn structure, then use that to win a technical endgame.
Or at some point during that process you trade what you have for a crazy sacrificial attack, or anything in between.
Ok most positions aren't that flexible, but this sort of exchanging is endlessly fun to try and figure out during a game. Sometimes to get the best value you have to do something right away. Sometimes to get the best value you have to be patient.
ah, but what if one attacks too soon, for the sake of initiative? might be more effective to develop and slowly make a position stronger... or you could let the opponent take the initiative... and wait for a counter attack? there is no definite answer, which is good, in boxing a counter punch is often effective...
Good point. I think I have covered your point with including "non-blunder" move in the definition of initiative in addition to threatful move.
The fun thing about chess is you can always trade. You can trade initiative for material, then trade that for space, then trade that for pawn structure, then use that to win a technical endgame.
Or at some point during that process you trade what you have for a crazy sacrificial attack, or anything in between.
Ok most positions aren't that flexible, but this sort of exchanging is endlessly fun to try and figure out during a game. Sometimes to get the best value you have to do something right away. Sometimes to get the best value you have to be patient.
You have just listed a few of facets of the game. That is why I have grown more and more interested to chess.
Clock-time advantage is a good factor to trade. I like to play fast at first, then when my opponent notices that and speeds up I gradually slow down and try to trade my time for a complex position with long-term strength. Then speed up once the hard work has been done and watch my opponent gradually fall behind on time or lose control of his position. At some point he will probably need to think for half an hour on a move and very often in the last ten minutes I'm the one with the time.
Obviously, you play a lot. Chess is very intriguing. Isn't it?
Clock-time advantage is a good factor to trade. I like to play fast at first, then when my opponent notices that and speeds up I gradually slow down and try to trade my time for a complex position with long-term strength. Then speed up once the hard work has been done and watch my opponent gradually fall behind on time or lose control of his position. At some point he will probably need to think for half an hour on a move and very often in the last ten minutes I'm the one with the time.
Obviously, you play a lot. Chess is very intriguing. Isn't it?>>>
Well, I used to, up to about ten years ago. About 40 club matches plus five or ten congresses per year, plus county games, so I got used to finding resources. Now I don't play much. So far this year only three club matches on board one for our club. Won two and managed to draw the third a pawn down but totally lost with a minute left on my clock when my opponent had nearly 20. I set up an exchange sacrifice that gave me pressure. My opponent went to pieces completely, I got a completely won position and offered a draw. My opponent was too shaken to see that I didn't have enough time to win. Two minutes left and I could have forced the win. But he accepted the draw.
It is very nice to read your note. Good for you.
Criteria is actually the plural of criterion. That gives me the initiative.
The initiative consists of pressure on an opponent's position and the resulting freedom of movement that brings, along with the ability and time to create more threats.
Thank you for granted comment too.
In this thread I have been trying to specify the elements, for the lack of better term, to break it down to criteria. So far, it seems to come down to "forced move" or "threatful move".
This terming clarifies the meaning in my opinion. That is what I was after.
To further clarify the meaning one could say: Initiative is having a threatful, non-blundering move against the opponent.
Why does it have to be a non-blundering move? I see no reason you couldn't still have the initiative even if you misplay. You could still put up forcing moves, even ones that eventually do weaken your position, from what I could tell. I don't see why pushing for initiative has to always be a good thing, the earlier quote references initiative as being positive "with all other things being equal" so perhaps a failure in another category can cause you to have the initiative while still blundering. As a terrible chess player who faces people as bad as me, I quite often do not have the initiative but simply defend and parry until my opponent screws themselves over and hands me the win, they could still force my moves for a time while losing power until my superior a strength in other areas catches up and I can take back the initiative and win.
Criteria is actually the plural of criterion. That gives me the initiative.
The initiative consists of pressure on an opponent's position and the resulting freedom of movement that brings, along with the ability and time to create more threats.
Thank you for granted comment too.
In this thread I have been trying to specify the elements, for the lack of better term, to break it down to criteria. So far, it seems to come down to "forced move" or "threatful move".
This terming clarifies the meaning in my opinion. That is what I was after.
To further clarify the meaning one could say: Initiative is having a threatful, non-blundering move against the opponent.
Why does it have to be a non-blundering move? I see no reason you couldn't still have the initiative even if you misplay. You could still put up forcing moves, even ones that eventually do weaken your position, from what I could tell. I don't see why pushing for initiative has to always be a good thing, the earlier quote references initiative as being positive "with all other things being equal" so perhaps a failure in another category can cause you to have the initiative while still blundering. As a terrible chess player who faces people as bad as me, I quite often do not have the initiative but simply defend and parry until my opponent screws themselves over and hands me the win, they could still force my moves for a time while losing power until my superior a strength in other areas catches up and I can take back the initiative and win.
You speak from experience, which is good. But ideally, if you play with a perfect opponent and you blunder you lose initiative. On the other hand, with others who make mistake then your blunder just might match his/her blunder then you keep your initiative that way.
That's the point. But in practice you might have a point but I do not think so.
Criteria is actually the plural of criterion. That gives me the initiative.
The initiative consists of pressure on an opponent's position and the resulting freedom of movement that brings, along with the ability and time to create more threats.
Thank you for granted comment too.
In this thread I have been trying to specify the elements, for the lack of better term, to break it down to criteria. So far, it seems to come down to "forced move" or "threatful move".
This terming clarifies the meaning in my opinion. That is what I was after.
To further clarify the meaning one could say: Initiative is having a threatful, non-blundering move against the opponent.
Why does it have to be a non-blundering move? I see no reason you couldn't still have the initiative even if you misplay. You could still put up forcing moves, even ones that eventually do weaken your position, from what I could tell. I don't see why pushing for initiative has to always be a good thing, the earlier quote references initiative as being positive "with all other things being equal" so perhaps a failure in another category can cause you to have the initiative while still blundering. As a terrible chess player who faces people as bad as me, I quite often do not have the initiative but simply defend and parry until my opponent screws themselves over and hands me the win, they could still force my moves for a time while losing power until my superior a strength in other areas catches up and I can take back the initiative and win.
You speak from experience, which is good. But ideally, if you play with a perfect opponent and you blunder you lose initiative. On the other hand, with others who make mistake then your blunder just might match his/her blunder then you keep your initiative that way.
That's the point. But in practice you might have a point but I do not think so.
Who says a blunder loses initiative? You may have instead gained initiative but lost material and the net value ends up being a blunder. It is entirely possible to have forcing moves lead nowhere, options go to nothing, it happens.
But personally I don't think someone can be said to have gained any initiative if it's purely temporary and the nett result is the ultimate loss of the game.
Why not? We do that with just about everything else. Anything you measure is put over a specific period of time, so yes, it is entirely possible to gain initiative in one move and lose the game later. If I lose a rook, I took a material loss in that turn. If I used it to take a queen, I had a net gain over those two turns. If I lost the game at the end, well.... darn. The way you say it, anyone who loses the game could not have possibly gained initiative at any point during it, which doesn't make any sense at all. What if you dominated the game and then accidentally let your opponent checkmate you with something easily preventable like a backrow rook mate? Could you not have been gaining initiative all the other moves?
I think people are too busy trying to say control in this area=you winning the game while ignoring that there are numerous things going on in the game and even if you hang on to one if you screw up elsewhere it can still cost you. It all adds up eventually.
Both of you have good points, now I see more clearly. But if we take take my statement as a rule then you should know there is exception to each rule. Remember I used if.
My statement was that a non-blundering, threatful move determines who has the initiative. My statement was work of all who contributed.
Now, tell me if that statement could be a rule, with exceptions.
I think if you removed the non-blunder, your definition would be more accurate. Those who are creating threats, setting the pace of the game, having the most impact on what moves are made in the game, that player has the initiative.
I think if you removed the non-blunder, your definition would be more accurate. Those who are creating threats, setting the pace of the game, having the most impact on what moves are made in the game, that player has the initiative.
If you make a threat to a kn, on let's say queen-side meanwhile your opponent is mating you with other pieces on the king-size in 3 moves. Is the initiative is with you or the other?
Also would you say your threat was a blunder or not?
What criteria(s) could be used to determine who has the initiative?
Your contributions are highly valued. Please feel free to explain yourself clearly. Thanks for inputs.
Inititiave is self explanatory, thanks for asking!