Position against a 2191 - draw?

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FancyKnight
kantifields wrote:

A draw can be claimed in the following position:

 

What if the claimer does not actually know how to draw it?

kantifields
FancyKnight wrote:

What if the claimer does not actually know how to draw it?

If white went to the TD and claimed a draw, it would be given.

woton
ChessvsAliens wrote:

any1 can tell me the EXACT rules??

10.2

If the player, having the move, has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may claim a draw before his flag falls. He shall summon the arbiter and may stop the clocks. (See Article 6.12.b)

a.

If the arbiter agrees the opponent is making no effort to win the game by normal means, or that it is not possible to win by normal means, then he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim.

Note:  This is the FIDE rule.  The USCF rule is slightly different.
 
 
 
 
MSC157
kantifields wrote:

A draw can be claimed in the following position:

Really?

Estragon, where are you? We need you. Smile

Likhit1

You cant claim a draw  when there are pawns on the board.But say,you have a queen and only 2 seconds on the clock and ur opponent has nthing,then you can claim a draw.

Rasparovov
Likhit1 wrote:

You cant claim a draw  when there are pawns on the board.But say,you have a queen and only 2 seconds on the clock and ur opponent has nthing,then you can claim a draw.

If the opponent has nothing the game will be drawn by losing those 2 secs anyways so might just try to checkmate within 2 seconds.

Likhit1
Rasparovov wrote:
Likhit1 wrote:

You cant claim a draw  when there are pawns on the board.But say,you have a queen and only 2 seconds on the clock and ur opponent has nthing,then you can claim a draw.

If the opponent has nothing the game will be drawn by losing those 2 secs anyways so might just try to checkmate within 2 seconds.

Yeah.Just saying how the draw claiming works.

woton
Likhit1 wrote:

You cant claim a draw  when there are pawns on the board..."

You can claim a draw whenever you have less than two minutes on your clock (9.1.3  A claim of a draw under Article 9.2, 9.3 or 10.2 shall be considered to be an offer of a draw).  If the arbiter agrees with you, it's a draw.  If they  disagree, you are penalized (two minutes are added to the opponents clock).

It's the arbiter's opinion that counts.

waffllemaster
kantifields wrote:

A draw can be claimed in the following position:

That's absurd.

waffllemaster
Irontiger wrote:

For your information, the following position that White could reach (if he does not play carefully) is a draw.The exchange is rarely the guarantee of a win, and never the guarantee of an easy win.

The exchange is more often than not a win.  In OPs case, the pawn on a dark square and the king out of play I tend to agree this win should be easy... although with just seconds left anything is possible.

dervich
FancyKnight wrote:
kantifields wrote:

A draw can be claimed in the following position:

 

What if the claimer does not actually know how to draw it?

There´s no way a arbiter could give a draw even in that simply position.

He would just say "please play on" until the white king reach the first rank and, in that position, 4 or 5 moves were made with no advance by black side.

MSC157

Ask on chesscafe. There you are able to ask the arbiter to clarify those misunderstandings.

kantifields

The position I showed is granted as a draw bt TD's.  The basis of their decision is "Can a C player draw the position against a GM".  That is the litmus test for Arbiters.

MSC157

http://www.chesscafe.com/archives/archives.htm#An Arbiter's Notebook

waffllemaster
kantifields wrote:

The position I showed is granted as a draw bt TD's.  The basis of their decision is "Can a C player draw the position against a GM".  That is the litmus test for Arbiters.

Only if you're low on time.  Also it's not a claim, you have to ask the arbiter to adjudicate it as a draw.  The so called "insufficient losing chances."

To claim a draw, you stop the clock and say "draw."  If you did so in that position your opponent could claim an illegal claim and you would be warned/penalized.

kantifields

You are correct, we are talking about a position that occurred with less than 1 minute... the question was in that case what would constitute a granted draw by an arbiter.  The king and pawn endgame I showed was to demonstrate an example that the arbiter would grant a draw if asked.

 

I gave this position to state that your opponent could have mating material on the board and still have the arbiter grant the draw.

zborg

Now you see why the USCF rule book is 250+ pages.  Laughing

"No Losing Chances" (and other related draw claims) are ridiculously complicated.

I believe white has a win, but it's not a simple one.

If @Irontiger has run it through the Namilov system, then it's probably not a simple or easy win for white.

We might need John Nunn's advice, or guidance from other strong players.

kantifields

I suppose an arbiter could choose not to grant a draw to a king and rook pawn endgame contested between to 900 rated players.  I don't know. 

I have seen a TD grant a draw request in a king and pawn endgame.  GM Larry Christiansen went bonkers in Vegas when  a TD adjudicated a draw to a lower rated opponent.  He insisted the TD produce the strongest C player he could find to justify his decision.  The TD decision stood.

zborg

TDs are God-like.  The have the power to inflict pain and mental anguish.  Laughing

P.S., 1) Re7, d5  2) Rxe6, dxe4  3) Rxf6 also might win for white.

woton
kantifields wrote:

  GM Larry Christiansen went bonkers in Vegas when  a TD adjudicated a draw to a lower rated opponent.  He insisted the TD produce the strongest C player he could find to justify his decision.  The TD decision stood.

Interesting that Christiansen would do this.  Rule 14H specifically states "When ruling, the director should not consider the ratings of those playing."