Ding or Gukesh? Who will win the World Chess Championship this year?

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punchdrunkpatzer

FIDE gives out titles when the criteria are met. Plain and simple. It's much more difficult to achieve 2500 rating performances in tournaments than it used to be. You have no argument besides 1 African grandmaster. Big whoop.

premio53
punchdrunkpatzer wrote:

FIDE gives out titles when the criteria are met. Plain and simple. It's much more difficult to achieve 2500 rating performances in tournaments than it used to be. You have no argument besides 1 African grandmaster. Big whoop.

The title may also be awarded directly without going through the usual norm requirements in a few high-level tournaments, provided the player has a FIDE rating of over 2300. These include:

Reaching the final 16 in the FIDE World Cup
Winning the Women's Chess World Cup
Winning the Women's World Championship
Winning the World Junior Championship (U20) outright
Winning the World Senior Championship outright, both in the 50+ and 65+ divisions
Winning a Continental (e.g. Pan American, European, Asian or African) championship[7]

Every year FIDE gives out multiple GM titles to those who didn't earn it over the board. The standards have been lowered for the sake of diversity.

punchdrunkpatzer

Gukesh if Ding is still unwell, by the way.

punchdrunkpatzer
premio53 wrote:
punchdrunkpatzer wrote:

FIDE gives out titles when the criteria are met. Plain and simple. It's much more difficult to achieve 2500 rating performances in tournaments than it used to be. You have no argument besides 1 African grandmaster. Big whoop.

The title may also be awarded directly without going through the usual norm requirements in a few high-level tournaments, provided the player has a FIDE rating of over 2300. These include:

Reaching the final 16 in the FIDE World Cup
Winning the Women's Chess World Cup
Winning the Women's World Championship
Winning the World Junior Championship (U20) outright
Winning the World Senior Championship outright, both in the 50+ and 65+ divisions
Winning a Continental (e.g. Pan American, European, Asian or African) championship[7]

Every year FIDE gives out multiple GM titles to those who didn't earn it over the board. The standards have been lowered for the sake of diversity.

it's so statistically rare that players under 2500 rating win these tournaments that the winners, if they aren't already bona-fide GMs, ought to be. I see no lowering of standards. They've simply opened the doors to more people.

Most players aren't privileged enough to travel the world for chess tournaments because of skyrocketing travel costs. These achievements are tantamount to the normal way.

Bobby Fischer won his GM title this way, too. Would you say he didnt deserve it?

premio53
punchdrunkpatzer wrote:
premio53 wrote:
punchdrunkpatzer wrote:

FIDE gives out titles when the criteria are met. Plain and simple. It's much more difficult to achieve 2500 rating performances in tournaments than it used to be. You have no argument besides 1 African grandmaster. Big whoop.

The title may also be awarded directly without going through the usual norm requirements in a few high-level tournaments, provided the player has a FIDE rating of over 2300. These include:

Reaching the final 16 in the FIDE World Cup
Winning the Women's Chess World Cup
Winning the Women's World Championship
Winning the World Junior Championship (U20) outright
Winning the World Senior Championship outright, both in the 50+ and 65+ divisions
Winning a Continental (e.g. Pan American, European, Asian or African) championship[7]

Every year FIDE gives out multiple GM titles to those who didn't earn it over the board. The standards have been lowered for the sake of diversity.

it's so statistically rare that players under 2500 rating win these tournaments that the winners, if they aren't already bona-fide GMs, ought to be. I see no lowering of standards. They've simply opened the doors to more people.

Most players aren't privileged enough to travel the world for chess tournaments because of skyrocketing travel costs. These achievements are tantamount to the normal way.

Bobby Fischer won his GM title this way, too. Would you say he didnt deserve it?

FIDE has made a joke of the GM title. Multiple players are granted the title by simply participating in specified tournaments not because they earned it by performing over 2500. Fischer was one of the strongest players in the world when he won the title. That was also before the ELO ratings.

punchdrunkpatzer
premio53 wrote:
punchdrunkpatzer wrote:
premio53 wrote:
punchdrunkpatzer wrote:

FIDE gives out titles when the criteria are met. Plain and simple. It's much more difficult to achieve 2500 rating performances in tournaments than it used to be. You have no argument besides 1 African grandmaster. Big whoop.

The title may also be awarded directly without going through the usual norm requirements in a few high-level tournaments, provided the player has a FIDE rating of over 2300. These include:

Reaching the final 16 in the FIDE World Cup
Winning the Women's Chess World Cup
Winning the Women's World Championship
Winning the World Junior Championship (U20) outright
Winning the World Senior Championship outright, both in the 50+ and 65+ divisions
Winning a Continental (e.g. Pan American, European, Asian or African) championship[7]

Every year FIDE gives out multiple GM titles to those who didn't earn it over the board. The standards have been lowered for the sake of diversity.

it's so statistically rare that players under 2500 rating win these tournaments that the winners, if they aren't already bona-fide GMs, ought to be. I see no lowering of standards. They've simply opened the doors to more people.

Most players aren't privileged enough to travel the world for chess tournaments because of skyrocketing travel costs. These achievements are tantamount to the normal way.

Bobby Fischer won his GM title this way, too. Would you say he didnt deserve it?

FIDE has made a joke of the GM title. Multiple players are granted the title by simply participating in specified tournaments not because they earned it by performing over 2500. Fischer was one of the strongest players in the world when he won the title. That was also before the ELO ratings.

Feel free to give names instead of vague generalities. It looks better for your credibility.

premio53

"Feel free to give names instead of vague generalities. It looks better for your credibility."

It would be hard to name all the players given titles every year who didn't earn it.

punchdrunkpatzer

Limit it to GM. Shouldn't be difficult. Only around 60 get it a year. Unless you're seriously stating here for everyone to see the ridiculous notion that most don't deserve it. One or two would suffice

premio53
punchdrunkpatzer wrote:

Limit it to GM. Shouldn't be difficult. Only around 60 get it a year. Unless your seriously stating here for everyone to see the ridiculous notion that most don't deserve it.

If they didn't reach the 2500 norm but received it by participating in a tournament they don't deserve it.

ziqizhang
Ding
punchdrunkpatzer
premio53 wrote:
punchdrunkpatzer wrote:

Limit it to GM. Shouldn't be difficult. Only around 60 get it a year. Unless your seriously stating here for everyone to see the ridiculous notion that most don't deserve it.

If they didn't reach the 2500 norm but received it by participating in a tournament they don't deserve it.

Lol. pure brainrot

BigChessplayer665

It depends how strong the turnement is if a person wins tournament and was 2200 let's say Magnus Carlson was in it I think they deserve the title of gm anyway I think it should also depend on how strong the tournament is

premio53
BigChessplayer665 wrote:

It depends how strong the turnement is if a person wins tournament and was 2200 let's say Magnus Carlson was in it I think they deserve the title of gm anyway I think it should also depend on how strong the tournament is

No 2200 player would ever win a tournament with Carlsen or any other top grandmasters in it. The fact of the matter is FIDE allowed a loophole to give the title to those who didn't earn it the way it used to be earned.

BigChessplayer665

@i plan on doing that buddy prove me wrong(minus getting the gm norm) not that Magnus Carlson would be in any of my chess tournaments

premio53
BigChessplayer665 wrote:

@i plan on doing that buddy prove me wrong

I wish you the best.

premio53

Nigel Short of England, who was once ranked No. 3 in the world, has said jokingly that the term has become so devalued that he would rather be called “Mister” than “grandmaster.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/crosswords/chess/20chess.html#:~:text=The%20term%20was%20used%20informally,there%20are%20more%20than%201%2C000.

BigChessplayer665

That's why there is a term called "super grandmaster unofficially "

Khnemu_Nehep
premio53 wrote:
punchdrunkpatzer wrote:

Limit it to GM. Shouldn't be difficult. Only around 60 get it a year. Unless your seriously stating here for everyone to see the ridiculous notion that most don't deserve it.

If they didn't reach the 2500 norm but received it by participating in a tournament they don't deserve it.

It's not for you to decide, is it ? So deal with it.
Anyway, it's kind of a toss up.
Gukesh might feel the pressure of a world championship while Liren hasn't been well lately.
I'm voting Liren based on experience though.

premio53
Khnemu_Nehep wrote:
premio53 wrote:
punchdrunkpatzer wrote:

Limit it to GM. Shouldn't be difficult. Only around 60 get it a year. Unless your seriously stating here for everyone to see the ridiculous notion that most don't deserve it.

If they didn't reach the 2500 norm but received it by participating in a tournament they don't deserve it.

It's not for you to decide, is it ? So deal with it.
Anyway, it's kind of a toss up.
Gukesh might feel the pressure of a world championship while Liren hasn't been well lately.
I'm voting Liren based on experience though.

It isn't for me to decide but FIDE should be called out for cheapening the title.

punchdrunkpatzer
premio53 wrote:
BigChessplayer665 wrote:

It depends how strong the turnement is if a person wins tournament and was 2200 let's say Magnus Carlson was in it I think they deserve the title of gm anyway I think it should also depend on how strong the tournament is

No 2200 player would ever win a tournament with Carlsen or any other top grandmasters in it. The fact of the matter is FIDE allowed a loophole to give the title to those who didn't earn it the way it used to be earned.

You really can't see how this statement on it's own crushes your ill-thought objections. Why yes, no actual 2200 could ever win these tournaments. You're entirely correct for once.

It's almost as if winning these highly contested, extremely strong tournaments as a lower rated player indicates they are not being adequately represented by their rating and ought to be measured accordingly. If only there were some kind of title that could be conferred in such cases.Oh well, who knows what could be done¯\_(ツ)_/¯