they arent? i know they are easier to stop, but I feel like I end up with more end pawns as my last ones.
yeah, the only piece who's moves are permenent
5 rules of the pawn
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I don't think a 2000+ rated player (maybe your rating is lower over the board) should be giving advice on pawn play as they may not understand pawn play very well.
I think pawns should be worth more that 1 point as they are so important to a game. Maybe 2 poinsts. Most valuable when guarding the king or providing an escape route!
Dec 11, 2012
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#25
as the game goes on they are worth more, at the begining 1-1.5, midgame 1.5-2, end game 2-2.5?
Dec 11, 2012
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#26
None of these are valid generalities.
There are times when exchanging is better than advancing. You especially if it also makes HIS pawn into a passed pawn, then other factors must be considered.
Pawns needing to be supported by other pawns is also not always true. There are many times that Isolated Pawns are a good thing, especially the Isolated Queen Pawn (IQP). Otherwise, the Tarrasch Defense and certain lines of the French Defense would be refuted, which they aren't, along with many lines of the Queen's Gambit Accepted, Nimzo-Indian, Catalan, and Panov-Botvinnik Attack from White's perspective.
Every position is unique and must be considered independently!
Dec 11, 2012
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#27
MichaelPorcelli wrote:
as the game goes on they are worth more, at the begining 1-1.5, midgame 1.5-2, end game 2-2.5?
I'd love to play you in the final round of a big tournament like the World Open in July. I'll offer you 2 pawns for a Rook in the endgame, and no, those 2 pawns won't be on the 6th rank, or how about I give you 4 pawns and you give me the Queen?
Dec 11, 2012
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#28
thats why they must be broken sometimes, but in "general" these guidline are helpful expecially to a newer player.
if i sacked my rook for two pawn and they were both passed, assuming my king was active it could be very interesting. but I would also say the rook is worth more than 5 in endgame
Pawns are overblown. swap em off - grab them - sac them. It's your pieces that win the game.
Dec 11, 2012
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#30
itis interesting how everyones style differs and as a result each person tends to value their pieces differently
Sometimes I get presented with points that speed up my comprehension of what's said in other resources, based on the logic involved, and not necessarily stuff to be accepted verbatim. Surely you can see the utility in that? Whether or not they are "incorrect" is irrelevant, because in the end most are here for fun and for (exploratory) purposes, and don't see online forums as textbooks. Just my 2 cents.
@bcoburn2 Have you mate a person with a pawn?
I have it is fun! My opponent blows up. "Lucky....lucky....lucky....." But does not want to play again, lol.
Hey i can not count the number of wins use a pawn as wedge to mate! lol.
Dec 11, 2012
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#33
I find it very easy to defeat players who follow these rules too rigidly:
e.g. opp is castled on h side and takes my bishop on the g - I am uncastled and now I am doubling my pawns no matter which pawn i recapture with. I take with my h pawn opening up a file against his king side...Later I castle q side if necessary but I already have a strong attack against his king.
Giving away pawns to trap is also a good tactic that works VERY well.
And even Houdini sacrificed two pawns against rybka (the immortal computer game if you look that up)
I actually find myself winning many times by delibrately breaking these rules (as long as it gives me some other tactical advantage) ....
Of course it doesn't work against stronger players though ...but really 2000 and below it works in some form or the other.
Before you even think about pawns think about your pieces.. are they undefeated unguarded etc... and most of all your king.If your king is very vulnerable -then your strong pawns vs your opp's weak ones do not mean much... perhaps your opp is just trying to checkmate you...which is the objective of the game
Dec 11, 2012
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#34
All of what you said is very true, but I would say that you can easily break the rules because you know and understand them and there for the exceptions do not reall break the rules as much as follow more important ones at the time perhaps
Aaaaah pawns tell me where i can and can not attack. I just took at a players game and told him where he went wrong look at his pawns. Every time i lost sight of the pawn play most of time i lost.
When pawns cramp your opponent position they only have one option to avoid mate (soon or later). Trade!
If a opponent over extends his pawns round up the troops and attack, most likely enough for a win.
My 2 pawn island vs opponents 3 pawn islands with same amount of pawns is win if material is even also.
Now the case where pawns is tricky. You may have a Pawn Majority in part of the board. That may be broken up with a Pawn Minority Attack.
Other cases is the case of a isolated pawn. It is great if is a Passed Pawn or the file next to it can be contolled by your rooks. And Doubled and etc.
Dec 11, 2012
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#36
MichaelPorcelli wrote:
itis interesting how everyones style differs and as a result each person tends to value their pieces differently
The problem is that too many people overuse the point system. I rarely use it ever! I evaluate based on the position.
Let's say Black has pawns on c5, d6, e5, White has pawns on e4, d5, c4 (kinda typical for Closed Benonis or the Nimzo Indian in lines where the doubled pawns were avoided, or the c3-pawn was lost). Now, let's assume White has no b-pawn, and the Light-squared bishops were already traded. White has a Bishop on e3, Black has a Knight on c4. The Bishop is protected by the King on e2.
You think that Black Knight on c4 and that White Bishop on e3 are both worth 3 points? Black would have to have gone insane to trade the Knight off for the Bishop. That Bishop is lucky if it's worth 1 1/2, the Knight is probably worth almost 5!
MichaelPorcelli wrote:
I am not trying to give advice to 200 rated player though, I am giving advice to those just learning the game. In which case they do not need to understand everything. I believe every player should give advice, and if their advice is not good then they will be told so and learn from it. I do not see this collection of pawn guidlines as hurting anyones chess, and maybe it will help some poepl. I know some of these that people have suggested I can work to incorparate further into my games
Great post Michael. This discussion helps me out a lot. I am just now appreciating the power of using pawns wisely, so for people with low ratings, I think it is good to hear different opinions. The game of Chess is so mathematically complex in its variations, that rules will be broken due to the unpredictable nature of the game; therefore I don't think this means people should keep thier ideas to themselves.
Ummmm! pawns! Sounds like your angry about how that game went you played.
Since you brought it up the Knight in that position is worth about 5pts but those things have to be maintained during the course of a game. Many lines in some openings have the Bishop as a Discovered Attack. If white should decide to trade off like crazy it could remain in your favor or turn in his. Who can see in 10-15 moves that involve the threat of trade offs.
Dec 11, 2012
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#39
very nice, power of the pawns. I have never seen those last two moves, very instructive, thank you
First .......LET US HAVE FUN!
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2nd It is always good to find out what other players think! Do they know as much as you do and do you know more? It is a win either way. If they know more you just learned something(best). If you know more then your on the right track(nothing really gained).
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Another to add to the list
Rook pawns are not as likely to Queen as the other pawns.