Americans suck at chess...why?

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Ziryab
TacticalSymphony wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

Americans pay among the lowest taxes in the world. We prefer physical sports and generally look down upon "intellectuals". Chess suffers from our anti-intellectualism. Consider that when a news broadcaster mentions chess, the self-reflective "it is too complicated for me" or "I don't have the patience" is almost obligatory.

Basically, this.  It's a mindset perpetuated by our cultural materialism and "fast food" mentality.  

Actually, the roots of anti-intellectualism differ. Cultural materialism and "fast food" mentality are shared consequnces of those roots. Richard Hofstadter, Anti-Intellectualism in American Life (1963) remains a solid interpretation. 

AlCzervik

More importantly, who cares?

Vease

England (or the UK if you prefer) also 'sucks' at Chess. The one period when we were churning out GM's like a conveyor belt was in the 70's and 80's. Guess who started that whole trend..Robert James FIscher. The one time chess had the chance to become mainstream in the US was on the back of the Fischer boom but when it became apparent he wasn't going to play anymore all the media interest and most of the sponsorship money dissappeared.

One final point, English players are quite happy to stay at home and never venture abroad to play in tournaments, but there just aren't any strong domestic tournaments other than the British Championship and the Open at the London Chess Classic.This means that they never get tested against higher quality opposition and are content to remain as biggish fish in a very small pool. I think something similar applies in the US.

BiffTheUnderstudy

Look at people talking about taxes in a topic about chessgames and you realize how much of a good job republican anti statist populism has done.

Anyway. Chess is at the opposite of american materialistic values. Intellectual, contemplative, slow paced, and unrelated to money.

BiffTheUnderstudy

Moses: Considering that Nakamura or Kamsky emigrated and are not of american culture, and that the US is 250 million people, i would say, they really do suck.

Soviet Union valued enormously culture, intelligence and knowledge, which explains why they supported areas like the arts, or chess so much. Proving that the homo sovieticus was better than individualistic capitalists from the west was a crucial goal for the regime. As a matter of fact, education and culture in the soviet union has been amongst the highest and best distributed in history. It doesn't make stalinism any good, but it's an achievement we tend to forget while talking about the USSR.

NimzoRoy

CHESS OLYMPIC MEDAL WINNERS:

RankCountry1st place2nd place3rd placeTotal
1  Soviet Union 18 1 0 19
2  Russia 6 3 1 10
3  United States 5 5 9 19
4  Hungary 3 6 2 11
5  Armenia 3 0 3 6
6  Ukraine 2 1 3 6
7  Yugoslavia 1 6 5 12
8  Poland 1 2 3 6
9  Germany* 1 1 3 5
10  England 0 3 3 6
Country rank by average rating of top 10 players
  Average GMs IMs Total Titled
1 Russia 2746 216 500 2175
2 Ukraine 2702 80 197 493
3 China 2670 31 26 125
4 France 2663 47 94 356
5 Armenia 2663 34 25 95
6 Hungary 2661 52 108 420
7 United States of America 2655 77 120 579
8 Azerbaijan 2651 20 17 79
9 India 2636 29 76 219
10 Poland 2635 35 101 332
11 Netherlands 2635 30 78 293
12 Germany 2633 80 233 1196
13 Israel 2627 39 45 157
14 England 2617 35 57 245
Sred
winerkleiner wrote:

Property taxes alone here are horrible, and I'm just on a personal rant and I don't mean to pollute your thread, other might agree with me or not (concerning taxes).

Just get rich, that will reduce the tax load .

Sred

@NimzoRoy: good reasoning, but don't forget that the OP exludes Jewish, Asian, Indian and Slavic players. Surprised

MSteen

Sadly, we're fast, loud, and rich. We want our entertainment in easy-to-swallow bites with almost no nutritive value. Witness the popularity of "reality" shows that chronicle the adventures of people with no talent, no imagination, and no shame.

Not one person in 100 can name a famous living scientist, mathematician, classical musician, or chessplayer. For that matter, almost no one could name the 5 of 9 Supreme Court Justices, the Prime Minister of Canada, the two senators that represent their home state, or even the Speaker of the House.

Now, it's easy to blame the educational system, but I place far far more of the blame at the feet of the media--including and especially the "news" media. They are so eager to cover stories that will bring in big viewership/advertising dollars that they fall all over themselves covering Kim Kardashian's wedding, Snookie's baby, the broken Carnival Cruise ship, and whatever is the latest drug/rape/murder/incest/embezzlement scandal. Meanwhile, the truly important stories about international politics, scientific discoveries, landmark court decisions, etc. get short shrift--almost as if the news media are broadcasting them as the broccoli before the dessert.

We simply aren't living in a culture that values achievement based on years and years of hard work, solitary labor, infinite patience, and intellectual brilliance. We are taught that anyone can be famous, rich, slim, attractive, and successful almost overnight with a miracle diet, a makeover, and a daily crossword puzzle.

ajian

racist

gambitattax

Now I think this post will lead to fight among players of different countries...

WanderingPuppet

er... more than half of US citizens grow up in poverty?  57% i believe i saw somewhere.  i doubt many of them care about the news much, although they should make the effort to be informed about options.  although poverty is not quite as bad as it once was, i read somewhere that 'poverty is the worst kind of violence', i think it was a gandhi quote, not that i necessarily agree with that [with the right support system, you can be a contributing member to society] although a few of my friends who grew up in those conditions might.  life's never easy regardless of your education, expensive as that is anyway via absurd university costs...

Annabella1

MSteen.....I have to agree with you ....

Rsava
Petrosianic wrote:

er... more than half of US citizens grow up in poverty?  57% i believe i saw somewhere.  

Completely out of whack. According to the U.S. Census Bureau data released September 2011, the nation's poverty rate rose to 15.1% (46.2 million) in 2010.

And that is poverty compared to what? Those living in poverty are still better off than the a large portion of the world. The top 50% (I am making that % up to make a point) of those living in poverty have a big screen tv and an X-Box 360. Go figure. Having an X-Box but not having enough money to buy food? First world problem.

It is our culture, nothing more. Just as in Japan there are those (a small %) that prefer basketball to Sumo or igo (囲碁) or in some European conutries that like American football over futbol. We have a small % that like chess, some that like mutiple things - I like sports and guns as well as chess.

 

b3njiy

In america children who play chess are seen as nerdy and are usually not very popular so kids usually focus their attention on football,baseball,etc thats why I think America hasn't reached their full potential

Rsava

Very well put msteen. 

I would also have to lay the blame at parents and the population itself.

My parents pushed us to do both sports and intellectual things. My brother played pro basketball in Europe but is also the one who introduced me to chess and strategy wargames.

My wife and I have introduced our sons to all types of activities. They were both taught chess, were brought to operas and plays as well as both playing sports. Neither plays chess currently but they have been introduced to the game and hopefully they will pick it up again at a later date. But the seed has been planted.

Annabella1

I agree.....My son (who is 12)  had that issue.....although he likes to play chess,  he doesnt want other kids to know he plays....Football looks more "cool". 

LelaCrosby
NimzoRoy wrote:
modestmouse_ wrote:

It seems to me there have only been a handful of American chess champions, and although they may have been born in the US they were Jewish, Asian, Indian or Slavic. Id like to see a John Smith at the top of he rankings, will this ever happen? Sure there are good players, but overall pretty lame. Why why why....whatsayyou???

It seems to me you don't know what you're talking about in addition to being a tad bit racist, hopefully unintentionally. Is there a difference between native-born WASP Americans and native-born Jews, Asians, and Indians? If so, please describe it. 

Lets see - Morphy, Paulsen, Showalter, Pillsbury, Marshall, Steinitz (a naturalized US citizen when he became the first official WCH), Evans, Reshevsky, Bisguier, Benko, Fischer, Fine, Kashdan, Christiansen, Browne, R Byrne, Denker, Nakamura, Kamsky, Alexander Onischuk (who is a member here BTW) etc etc. How many "American chess champions" (ie world-class players) past and present can you name? (BTW I know several GMs here aren't "native born" US citizens but they all played or play as US chess players now)

BTW the USA has won 5 Gold Chess Olympic medals (1st place) 5 Silver (2nd Place) and 9 Bronze medals (3rd place) out of 43 Chess OLs to date: 19 medals out of 129 total.  Not bad for a nation that "sucks at chess" huh?

Country rank by average rating of top 10 players   Average GMs IMs Total Titled 1 Russia 2746 216 500 2175 2 Ukraine 2702 80 197 493 3 China 2670 31 26 125 4 France 2663 47 94 356 5 Armenia 2663 34 25 95 6 Hungary 2661 52 108 420 7 United States of America2655 77 120 579

The entire list has 134 nations, and 33 nations have less than ten "Total Titled" players  http://ratings.fide.com/topfed.phtml

Looks like America has the 3rd greatest amount of GMs and the 2nd most titled.

That table would look a little better with all the top 10.

I present a new question: Why are there so many more great Russian players?

jesterville

Some very interesting posts here. I agree that culture, and "the rate of return" (financial rewards expected) would be very high on the true "why" of the current chess player supply curve in the US.

Fischer would have transformed all of this I think ...if only he was not so selfish. 

The US is driven by "the fast food mentality", everyone wants everything now, but no one wants to work hard for it...and this may be one reason for the US profile on violence, fraud, cheating in everything etc. The value system is changing dramatically...and maybe for the worst.

jesterville

...umm...I hope I did not offend with my last post, if anyone is, I will delete it.