Any Opening Suggestions For A 1000-1200 Player?

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dfgh123

you hardly ever get to play the lines you studied, for example i have played italian game 280 times online and reached the line i wanted giuoco piano 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Bd2 only 17 times. focus on middlegame and endgame.

The_Chin_Of_Quinn
kindaspongey wrote:
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:

... Give someone pawn odds in the opening, and it isn't worth much.
Give a 1200 rated player pawn odds in certain endgames, and they can beat Carlsen.

Mistakes with reduced material matter much more... although sure, if you're trying to play some sharp theoretical line, you can lose right away if you don't know what you're doing. The answer then, of course, is to not play sharp openings if you don't know what you're doing. You can play colle and london crap all the way to a title, the opening doesn't need to be a big deal unless you make it one.

Where is it advocated to make the opening "a big deal"? Is one going to learn about the colle, the london, or avoiding sharp openings by doing tactics drills?

IMO ideally you learn about lots of different openings, and the types of middlegames they lead to, by playing over a lot of GM games.

Unfortunately I didn't do this as a beginner because I wanted all the moves to make sense and I became frustrated. The moves don't need to make sense though. It's enough to just find one interesting thing about the game. It can be as simple as a tactic or maneuver. Also note general things like which side of the board the players played on (kingside, center, queenside) and in what way (pawns, pieces, both?)

Meanwhile the player is seeing lots of different openings, and will start to remember the moves to the most common openings as a consequence.

That would be my advice to a beginner.

kindaspongey
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:

... in the beginning, sure, memorize a few moves (not 10 or more). The moves wont make much sense, but that and the opening principals will be enough while you collect all the basics in the other areas. 

Then you can go back and ...

"... I feel that the main reasons to buy an opening book are to give a good overview of the opening, and to explain general plans and ideas. ..." - GM John Nunn (2006)

Redlynx17

You can get to 1500 by playing King's gambit.

kindaspongey
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:

... IMO ideally you learn about lots of different openings, and the types of middlegames they lead to, by playing over a lot of GM games. ... the player is seeing lots of different openings, and will start to remember the moves to the most common openings as a consequence.

That would be my advice to a beginner.

In The Mammoth Book of Chess, the section on openings is, to a large extent, a collection of games. Many opening books are, to a large extent, collections of games for this or that opening.

The_Chin_Of_Quinn
kindaspongey wrote:
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:

... in the beginning, sure, memorize a few moves (not 10 or more). The moves wont make much sense, but that and the opening principals will be enough while you collect all the basics in the other areas. 

Then you can go back and ...

"... I feel that the main reasons to buy an opening book are to give a good overview of the opening, and to explain general plans and ideas. ..." - GM John Nunn (2006)

Are we talking a book on a single opening, or a book on openings in general?

The_Chin_Of_Quinn
kindaspongey wrote:
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:

IMO ideally you learn about lots of different openings, and the types of middlegames they lead to, by playing over a lot of GM games. ... the player is seeing lots of different openings, and will start to remember the moves to the most common openings as a consequence.

That would be my advice to a beginner.

In The Mammoth Book of Chess, the section on openings is, to a large extent, a collection of games. Many opening books are, to a large extent, collections of games for this or that opening.

That's perfect.

Many books may be like that... but at least as many are trashy database dumps.

And if it's a whole book on a single opening, I think that's a big waste of time for a beginner.

kindaspongey
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:

... "... I feel that the main reasons to buy an opening book are to give a good overview of the opening, and to explain general plans and ideas. ..." - GM John Nunn (2006)

Are we talking a book on a single opening, or a book on openings in general?

There are a whole range of of possibilities. Various 1 e4 e5 openings are discussed in Starting Out: Open Games by Glenn Flear (2010).
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626232452/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen134.pdf
Discovering Chess Openings is pretty general, and, at the other end of the spectrum, there are books like Starting Out: Ruy Lopez by John Shaw (2003).
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627024240/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen53.pdf

kindaspongey
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:

... In The Mammoth Book of Chess, the section on openings is, to a large extent, a collection of games. Many opening books are, to a large extent, collections of games for this or that opening.

That's perfect.

Many books may be like that... but at least as many are trashy database dumps.

And if it's a whole book on a single opening, I think that's a big waste of time for a beginner.

I do not know who would advocate trashy database dumps, but, if it is okay to look at GM games, I do not see what would be wrong with looking at a book that is, for example, to a large extent, a collection of Ruy Lopez games (or a collection of queen's gambit declined games). What would be wrong with looking at a collection of Colle and/or London games?

"... Everyman Chess has started a new series aimed at those who want to understand the basics of an opening, i.e., the not-yet-so strong players. ..." - FM Carsten Hansen (2002)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627055734/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen38.pdf

kindaspongey
ciarli wrote:

any kind of opening is fine to a 1800+- player. I mean every kind of opening. Instead try to force to refuse blundering, direct blundering or two moves or three moves blundering and loose some time trying to win the pawns in the center.

"It is important for club players to build up a suitable opening repertoire. ..." - GM Artur Yusupov (2010)

The_Chin_Of_Quinn
kindaspongey wrote:
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:

... In The Mammoth Book of Chess, the section on openings is, to a large extent, a collection of games. Many opening books are, to a large extent, collections of games for this or that opening.

That's perfect.

Many books may be like that... but at least as many are trashy database dumps.

And if it's a whole book on a single opening, I think that's a big waste of time for a beginner.

I do not know who would advocate trashy database dumps, but, if it is okay to look at GM games, I do not see what would be wrong with looking at a book that is, for example, to a large extent, a collection of Ruy Lopez games (or a collection of queen's gambit declined games). What would be wrong with looking at a collection of Colle and/or London games?

"... Everyman Chess has started a new series aimed at those who want to understand the basics of an opening, i.e., the not-yet-so strong players. ..." - Carsten Hansen (2002)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627055734/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen38.pdf

Any book is better than no book, but I think it would be more useful for a beginner to learn basics like what a fork and backward pawn is before playing over 50 games all with the same opening.

So the rating is important. I assume 1000-1200 (the range in the title of the topic) still needs some of these basics.

kindaspongey
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:

... I think it would be more useful for a beginner to learn basics like what a fork and backward pawn is before playing over 50 games all with the same opening. ...

Who said "50"? Anyway, YOU wrote:

"... in the beginning, sure, memorize a few moves (not 10 or more). The moves wont make much sense, ..."

And YOU wrote:

"... IMO ideally you learn about lots of different openings, and the types of middlegames they lead to, by playing over a lot of GM games.
Unfortunately I didn't do this as a beginner ..."

Whatever the number of games, if, "as a beginner", one is going to pay attention to "a few" specific moves and play over games, why not look at games that have been chosen to help the reader to make sense of those moves?

dfgh123

don't forget all these quotes are from masters selling opening books

GodsPawn2016
dfgh123 wrote:

don't forget all these quotes are from masters selling opening books

Abraham Lincoln had a great quote on openings:  The opening serves one purpose.  To get to a playable middlegame.

SirFlintstone

Since you are playing OTB tourneys I suggest looking at the openings of your potential opponents and prepare your responses to them.  If you play e4 as white and 1/2 your opponents play e5 study those, if they play c5, etc.. It will be more helpful to you and be fresher in your memory when playing.  Openings won't win most games but learning not to lose games or getting bad positions from the first few moves should be the main goal.

kindaspongey
dfgh123 wrote:

don't forget all these quotes are from masters selling opening books

Has anyone come forward to condemn a great conspiracy to sell opening books?

kindaspongey
GodsPawn2016 wrote:

... Abraham Lincoln had a great quote on openings:  The opening serves one purpose.  To get to a playable middlegame.

You know that advice actually comes from an opening book along with ideas for specific opening choices?

GodsPawn2016
kindaspongey wrote:
GodsPawn2016 wrote:

... Abraham Lincoln had a great quote on openings:  The opening serves one purpose.  To get to a playable middlegame.

You know that advice actually comes from an opening book along with ideas for specific opening choices?

The quote was by Lajos Portisch.

kindaspongey

And do you know the openings he suggested?

GodsPawn2016
kindaspongey wrote:

And do you know the openings he suggested?

No Idea...