Authentic Staunton Chess questions

I've done a search but can't find exactly what i'm looking for; I apologize if these questions have been anwered elsewhere!

I am almost ready to purchase a remarkable set of chessmen from House of Staunton, the Fischer Timeless set.  I really like the 'basic' look of these pieces...I'm not really into flamboyant looking knights or bishops with huge gaps in their top-pieces (whatever those are called!).  The rooks in this set are great, but I would have prefered a less 'tall' top, the 'wall' portion.  But overall, I like the look and style...I realize this is a replica set and that the originals were actually 3.75 inch Kings but this oversized set will look and play wonderfully, I'm sure.

I'm looking for heirloom quality, and with that brought some questions.  I've just recently stumbled upon the Jaques of London site, and it lead me to question...who has 'the' authentic rights to producing Staunton style chessmen (high end, luxury sets)?

The Jaques sets are somewhat more expensive (well, a lot more expensive for some of them!) but they all proudly bear their manufacturer's sign, and look to be the more 'real deal' set.  Of course, HOS has fantastic quality but in terms of something that is part of an established lineage, something that will appreciate in value, something that you can actually call authentic...that's what I'm getting at. 

I'd really like to hear what you have to say, as I don't know how long I can hold out before I make the purchase!...thanks in advance.

Nobody has exclusive rights to sell Staunton style pieces. "Staunton" describes a general style of pieces the way "coupe" or "sedan" describe cars. Sub-variations of the Staunton style such as "Fischer Timeless" or "Marshall" may be patented but it only takes a minor deviation in design to get around the patent.

All that aside, Jaques of London is credited with producing the first Staunton style chess set. I believe there is some dispute over this but I don't have sources right now. The British Chess Company also has a long history of producing Staunton pieces. HOS supplies British Chess Company sets so one of those or a Jaques could be said to have a long pedigree.

Personally, I like the looks of the Jaques sets more than the BCC sets I've seen.

Thanks for the info!  The Jaques sets are a little smaller than what I was going for, the HOS has a nice Timeless set for around 800 USD and the King is a little over 4 inch high. 

The Jaques also have the red trademark stamps on the King, which I find almost 'spoils' the clean look.  In particular, the Knights (and supposedly Rooks) have some kind of mark to identify them with the King or Queen side.  In the photos, there's what looks like a red 'spot' on the top of the Knight.  I'm not such a huge fan of this...does anyone know more about this?

It's nice to know that HOS supplies the BCC, which has a nice history.  The Jaques boards pale in comparison to the amazing pieces the HOS sells, in my opinion. 

The one thing that really sways me towards the Jaques set though is that they are the 'actual' company which started producing the Staunton style (from what I've read and gathered from the internet).  In that regard, it seems a more authentic set...even though HOS makes some truly amazing looking boards and pieces and I'm certain both are of the highest quality. 

I'd really like to hear from some other opinions, if you have any!

I believe the red dot is actually a crown. It was used on the King's knights and rooks so they could be differentiated from the Queen's knight and rook. The Bishops could be told by the color of their squares. Old types of notation would often say things like KR-B5. These days it means whichever rook is on the kingside. At one time it probably meant the King's rook no matter which side of the board it was on.

Here's a link to an old HOS page where they describe the crown on the knight and rook. (Yes, HOS used to sell Jaques sets)
http://www.houseofstaunton.com/jaques4.html

HOS has nice boards but their selection is becoming limited. There are other sources for fine, custom boards. Here's one link. I have another nice link at home. If you're interested I'll post it later. http://www.customchess.com/

Also, you might like this page. http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/chess_staunton.htm

Jaques may be the "real deal" in terms of provenance but it doesn't hold any patent on great quality, and certainly not in terms of being best value for money.

This applies especially when one is not spending several hundred--or more--dollars on a set of men.

HOS still offers middle of the line sets that are high quality for a good price. I don't know how much has changed in the most recent years but Jaques was offering their Millenium set for more than twice the cost of HOS's Marshall, and they were the exact same set.

IMO, one overpays for a Jaques, just because of the name.

Another advantage for this side of the pond is that shipping fom HOS will be more reasonable, and exchanges--be it piece by piece or the whole set--will be easier using HOS's famous customer service.

I would say that the Jaques name isn't worth much for a new set unless it is one of their best ones. That is, it won't mean so much to the informed chess set enthusiast. How you or I feel about a particular set is yet again something else.

My recommendation for a Staunton style set has been for a long time HOS. As a buyer of a fine set (The Collector) and a middlin' and a cheap wood set, and their great plastic Collector, I can verify that I got more than I paid for each time.

Thanks for the recommendations.  It's a tough decision...I'm assuming the 'good' sets from Jaques that would retain (and possibly appreciate) value over the long term would be their two thousand dollar and upward sets. 

I'm strongly leaning towards the Timeless Fischer set from HOS.  I was swayed by the Jaques version, but the size is a little smaller (3.5 vs 4.4 with HOS), for the same price.  I'm not sure I want those red marks on my knights, either!  Just ruins the aesthetics in a way, just my opinion.

With the HOS set, however, how can one 'prove' that they've got an authentic HOS set, as the pieces don't have any markings to identify them like the Jaques?

As you can tell, I'm getting nitpicky about details, but when you're spending almost a grand on chessmen, I'd like to be as satisfied as possible...the playability of them is a given, I'm concerned with how they'll hold up over the years in terms of value.  I'm not looking for them to really appreciate, but I'd like to think that I could sell them for close to what I paid for them in a decade.

Any other suggestions of websites that sell quality higher-end Staunton style sets like the ones above?  Thanks!

I'd doubt that any Jaques or HOS set would accrue in its real dollars value, unless you got one heck of a deal or the set was made in small numbers.

I would also doubt that one could reliably get that $2000 back spent on a nice Jaques set. The buyer pays a premium in the first place; there would have to be a seller's market for the set to match that, I'd think.

Maybe  15 years ago the USCF was selling a Jaques ebony and boxwood set for $1000. What is it worth today, even pristine? A few hundred at most I bet. It's the same set (essentially) that HOS now calls their Reykjavik II--the design that Fischer-Spassky used in 1972--except that the workmanship on one of those Jaques I saw was not impressive at all. Shoddy compared to what HOS was selling, and I don't think the equal in materials.

You can also leaf through HOS customer feedback for a comment or two of Jaques Buyers Remorse. Not always does top dollar get one the best.

The base issue is that there are plenty of those sets out there. It looks like they will be pushing more out the door in the future.

I know of some limited edition HOS sets that might, if they were kept in excellent condition, call for more than they were sold for. Maybe someone is wanting to mate a board they like with a set the right but uncommon size, a nice set. For me the 3.5" Harrwitz is like that. There just aren't many fine 3.5" sets that would size great with a board I have. Probably more prospective buyers than sellers for that one in the future.

As for proving whether a set was HOS or not: It wouldn't be hard. Almost all of their good and better sets are unique HOS productions and can be identified as such by sight. Some sets also come with a paper certificate, if that would help.

Yeah, I hear that.
I've never handled a Jaques set so I have no opinion there. A year ago I bought a nice HOS set that I'm very happy with. I learned something about old chess sets. They become a part of you. I had played almost exclusively with my old set for nigh on umpteen years and they'd sort of settled in comfortably. I placated them by using them as my practice set, which I use more often than the nicer set.

Thanks for the great advice; I can say that HOS will be where I'll make my purchase.  I still have some qualms about the size: my 'main' set I use most often is 3.75 inch.  I rather like that size, but for some reason the 4.4 is making an impression. 

I definitely want the set to be a 'player'; right now I'm using some standard plastic Stautons that I've been familiar with since I was a kid...something about the memories, the smell of the vinyl green (or brown) and white boards I learned on in school, I just love playing with them.  But after seeing a great set in a shop one day, the bug to get a higher end set bit.  Something about the smooth board, the heft of the pieces...perfect all around, but I wasn't sure where it was made and so I passed.  Which is what lead me to HOS and some other sites. 

I'll take some pics of when the set arrives, whichever one it may be!  If anyone else can give some advice, thanks!

i believe the pointed hats that bishop's wear are called "miters"or "mitre's. i hope that helps. aloha,...ppeets

Hmm, I was just reading this.

Give your set a close inspection when it arrives and avail yourself of their piece replacement policy.

My Collector is a fine example of the design but it had serious issues when it first arrived, namely some "burnt" boxwood  pawns (too much pressure with the rouge bar), a few pieces turned off center, and a boxwood bishop that developed a cracked base (probably the wood was not properly cured).

The QC at place of production was terrible and HOS didn't check their shipments before sending them off to their customers. They may still typically not do so. Not sure.

In any case, check the set out as I did and return as needed. I ended up with a set I am happy with. And I am a little finicky.

P.S. A Collector II I received was just fine as is. Don't let me scare you overly.

So I've decided on the Rejkyavik II set with a 3.75 King and a matching board, the Maple/Ebony Superior Traditional with 2.25 squares.  I'll save the larger 4.4 set for something down the road; I'm quite happy with the size of my plastic sets, and the 4.4 boards are just a lil too big...I'm afraid I won't be as apt to use it as often due to the size.

I noticed something a lil strange that points to the QC issues you mentioned, Goldendog.  The fine print on their Ebay add stated that 'the pieces may not look as uniform as they do in the pictures due to the nature of wood'.  Well, isn't that why we're paying a lot of money, so we get what's advertised?   I can't say it's giving me a warm fuzzy feeling.  Plus, according to the website, you've got a measly SEVEN days to return any pieces for replacement...seven days?...really?  On a set that I'm paying close to 700 USD on?  That means seven days from the package arriving at your post office.  That just seems far too slim. 

I'm going to go for it, but I'm skeptical.  I'll let you all know how it turns out.

I see on their site:

21. What is the warranty on House of Staunton-brand Chess sets and Chess boards?

From the date the item is purchased, the House of Staunton will warranty that its branded products will be free of manufacturing defects for a period of one year and will replace any items that exhibit manufacturing defects at absolutely no charge to the customer.

Examples of defects that ARE COVERED under this warranty:

  If Hairline cracks develop in the base of Wooden Chessmen.   If the metal weight inside become loose and moves around. 

Examples of defects that ARE NOT COVERED under this warranty:

Any physical defects that were caused by improper use of the product, such as being dropped on the ground, being chewed by the dog, pieces that are improperly stored. Any pieces that become lost.   Any pieces that are damaged due to improper waxing.

As for the wording that the "nature of the wood varies in appearance so you can't buy the set in the picture," it makes sense. There's too much variability in rosewood, for example, to always expect what is likely a good specimen in a picture, or the same kind of good. You'd be safe with boxwood and ebony/ebonized though.

I'm looking to buy one set myself but i do not know what shop to buy from, how do i know if i am buying the "real thing"? i saw someone on youtube saying that unless the set comes with a green sticker it isn't authentic, but the shop i was planning on buying from doesnt have that, is this green sticker rule true?