balancing chess for black

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Avatar of thegoldenknight2003

I was thinking of a way to balance chess more in favor of black, evening out the odds of the first move advantage for white. I was thinking about it and i thought of giving black an extra pawn that she can drop on the 7th or 6th ranks, also black would only be able to do this after the tenth move as this is usually considered the end of the opening part of the game. This could be especially useful in the endgame to block enemy pawns from promoting or protecting the king.

Avatar of gingerninja2003

Although white has a slight advantage, it is only 'slight.' which consists of an extra tempo which isn't enough for a win. Your idea will probably be enough to give black a major advantage. In an equal endgame, which is very likely to happen in any game. Black can just drop his pawn down on the sixth rank and win due to it being a passed pawn.

Above is a drawn endgame with black (or white) to move. However if it was black to move with your rule in place. black could place a pawn-h6 and then you get the below position.

and black wins because white has to divert his king to the h pawn to stop it and then the black king will have enough time to eat the queen-side pawns.


 

Avatar of thegoldenknight2003

I did consider that when i thought of this "variant". Although this could happen it would require white to let this happen so I'm not sure if the addvantage would be that great.

Avatar of thegoldenknight2003

If you have any other suggestions that would be great

Avatar of gingerninja2003
thegoldenknight2003 wrote:

I did consider that when i thought of this "variant". Although this could happen it would require white to let this happen so I'm not sure if the addvantage would be that great.

There are other issues as well, it is harder for white to create an attack as black has an 'emergency pawn' to put in front of his king in case of any sacrifices. To be honest i think black can win any king and pawn endgame provided material's equal for example

i believe black can win (or has winning chances) with pawn c7 (or c6) due to him having a queen-side majority which is the furthest away from the kings therefore a creation of a passed pawn through pawn pushes could be decisive.
 

Avatar of Wolf183

There is already a simple idea from game theory to eliminate the first move advantage from games with alternating turns, known as the pie rule. White makes the first move normally, then black can choose either to respond to the move or switch colors with his opponent. This ensures that the first move will be fair to both sides in a game-theoretical sense. I think it would be quite interesting to see how the pie rule would affect opening choices in chess.

Avatar of JayeshSinhaChess

Chess.com feature of analysis evaluates the starting position as .42 in favor of white w/ 1. e4 as best suggested move, & .22 in favor of white with 1.d4 or 1. Nf3.

After you play 1.e4, and white play 1.e5, the position is .38 for white. This is barely an adv.

 

However if black has an extra pawn to use then it gives black a +1 adv., which is very often at the top level a winning adv.

 

A extra pawn many not matter all that much at the lower level, but at the highest levels, an extra pawn means a win.

 

So instead of equalising what you suggest tilts the balance from a slight adv for white to a near winning adv for black.

Avatar of thegoldenknight2003

I know about the pie rule but the whole point of the emergency pawn is to not change the opening, that's why i said it could only be played after the tenth move. Also gingerninja2003, can you think of any way that black is winning with the emergency pawn in a non pawn only endgame?

Avatar of thegoldenknight2003

JayseshSinahChess wrote "

Chess.com feature of analysis evaluates the starting position as .42 in favor of white w/ 1. e4 as best suggested move, & .22 in favor of white with 1.d4 or 1. Nf3.

After you play 1.e4, and white play 1.e5, the position is .38 for white. This is barely an adv.

 

However if black has an extra pawn to use then it gives black a +1 adv., which is very often at the top level a winning adv.

 

A extra pawn many not matter all that much at the lower level, but at the highest levels, an extra pawn means a win.

 

So instead of equalising what you suggest tilts the balance from a slight adv for white to a near winning adv for black."

   a similar thing happens in Hearthstone were the player going second receives an extra card which grants them a measurable advantage.


 

Avatar of gingerninja2003
thegoldenknight2003 wrote:

I know about the pie rule but the whole point of the emergency pawn is to not change the opening, that's why i said it could only be played after the tenth move. Also gingerninja2003, can you think of any way that black is winning with the emergency pawn in a non pawn only endgame?

probably, but when more pieces are added it becomes more complex. If I could ask a master then there would be examples. The thing is king and pawn endgames are a reality of chess, they can be really interesting especially with zugzwang tactics and with your rule you're removing that from chess.

Avatar of Wolf183

A droppable pawn is much too powerful to balance a single tempo. Aside from the problems mentioned by gingerninja, the extra pawn could also conceivably fork or trap enemy pieces throughout the game.

Avatar of thegoldenknight2003

this has nothing to do with the discussion but.

click this link  to play real time chess. it wasn't created by me all the credit go's to chess.com user paladin314159

Avatar of cellomaster8
Checked out the link. Interesting idea but very weird and hard to play
Avatar of thegoldenknight2003

yeah it's basically blitz but a whole lot harder

Avatar of Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Yeah.... i agree with cellomaster
Avatar of Kapivarovskic

Do I understand this correctly? You're compensating a slight advantage of a tempo in the opening with a winning advantage of an extra pawn that can be put anytime during the game? Talk about balance lol

Avatar of tygxc

#16
The TCEC superfinals was played with imposed imbalanced openings to prevent all draws.

Avatar of tygxc

#19
No, chess itself is balanced. The 50 imposed openings in the TCEC superfinals were slightly unbalanced in white's favor and only one was slightly unbalanced in black's favor. If next year they impose 50 openings that are slightly unbalanced in black's favor, like say 50 gambits, then expect more black wins and less white wins. The result says something about the imposed openings, not about the game of chess.

If you want further proof, then look at the ICCF World Correspondence Chess Championship.
https://www.iccf.com/event?id=66745

Even if stalemate were a win then the draw rate of AlphaZero versus itself remains 98%.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2009.04374.pdf 

Avatar of Ansonzach

As noted, it's a small tempo advantage, estimated at around 0.2-0.3 on average with best play on both sides by the best modern engines. I wonder why people think of material compensation as the only viable compensation, when it's ridiculous.

The reasonable compensation has to be a tempo regain of some sort. It's interesting to note that since only one player can move at a time, 1 tempo would essentially flip the order of play. So ideally, the compensation is half a tempo. How would you do that?

Something alon the lines of a small castling rule modification for Black would be the most logically appropriate way. So here, I paved the way. But when it comes to creative brainstorming, the more inputs, the better. So handing it back!